Cyberzombie for a Freaks Campaign, Or, Yeah, my GM's lost it Options

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Is that what Chicanery they're saying?

I mean.. the CZ process turns the person's soul into a bound Toxic Free Spirit inhabiting the cybered up body in a way that he can still use the cyberware in the body.

it's creeeeeepy weird voodoo magic stuff. (Literally, rumor was that Aztlan when developing this technology used Voodoo magic and blood magic )

The idea that you awaken afterwards and get Adept powers.. WTF

No, the idea is that you were awakened before, and then because your Magic gets brought back to 1 because of the freaky voodoo blood magic you get to become sorta kinda reawakened. It's just a thought exercise at this point, I'm interested more in what I could do, rather than what I will do.

[Dahrken]

It is an exotic (and somewhat abusive !) reading of the description of the cybermantic procedure. While it explicitely stat that it removes any Resonance and technomantic ability or potential the character may have had prior to the procedure, it did not explicitely said what happens to the magical qualities (like Mage, Adept or Latent Awakening) that the character had.

My guess is that it was overlooked as no sane magically active character would undergo that kind of procedure, and my houseruling would be that such qualities are destroyed too. But it is my interpretation of RAI rather than strict RAW which is unclear on the topic.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, the explicit no-Resonance is merely because it's 100% impossible to have Magic and Resonance, that's all.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

It is an exotic (and somewhat abusive !) reading of the description of the cybermantic procedure. While it explicitely stat that it removes any Resonance and technomantic ability or potential the character may have had prior to the procedure, it did not explicitely said what happens to the magical qualities (like Mage, Adept or Latent Awakening) that the character had.

My guess is that it was overlooked as no sane magically active character would undergo that kind of procedure, and my houseruling would be that such qualities are destroyed too. But it is my interpretation of RAI rather than strict RAW which is unclear on the topic.

You're right, it is an exotic (and somewhat abusive) reading - however, my Magic is hardmaxed at 1, I can only initiate once, and I'm the center of a BGC of 4, so it's not like I'm gonna be an übermage in addition to being an übermensch Cyberzombie. I'm more interested in it from a fluff perspective than a mechanical one, but I like to have the mechanics fit the fluff.

And I doubt any sane being of any stripe would voluntarily undergo the procedure, except in the most dire of straights. My CZ had it foisted upon him rather than choosing it anyhow.

[sabs]

No, the idea is that you were awakened before, and then because your Magic gets brought back to 1 because of the freaky voodoo blood magic you get to become sorta kinda reawakened. It's just a thought exercise at this point, I'm interested more in what I could do, rather than what I will do.

Once you burn out, you can never re-awaken again.
Read the rules for dropping bellow 1 magic.

SR4A Pg 177

If a character’s Magic is ever reduced to 0, she can no longer perform
any kind of magic. The magician has “burned out,” losing all
magical ability and becoming a mundane forever.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, that's why I misunderstood (?) about Awakening *after* cyberzombification.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

That's true, but might this be a special case, as a CZ is pretty decidedly not mundane (having a permanent Magic of 1)?

And can you Awaken after zombification?

[sabs]

Occam says no (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Edana]

It's not a particularly exotic reading given that the procedure explicitly reduces pre-existing magic to 1, rather than burning you out and giving you a new magic rating.

Accordingly, upon awakening to her new dual existence, a cyberzombie gains a Magic attribute of 1. This cannot be increased with Karma, spirit pacts, or in fact by any other means. If the character already possessed a Magic attribute, it is permanently reduced to 1.

Whether you can do anything useful with that magic of 1 is debatable though, since there's no explanation of how it interacts with the background count from the astral hazing.

[Yerameyahu]

You're literally not a person any more, right? It's literally a kind of spirit possessing itself? (I'm asking.) *shrug*. This is just for the sake of argument, because the super-obvious answer is '*face slap for even asking*'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[WhiskeyJohnny]

It's not a particularly exotic reading given that the procedure explicitly reduces pre-existing magic to 1, rather than burning you out and giving you a new magic rating.


Whether you can do anything useful with that magic of 1 is debatable though, since there's no explanation of how it interacts with the background count from the astral hazing.

Ooh, nice catch. And yeah, that's kinda my question - what can I do with a Magic of 1, at the center of a BGC of 4?

And Occam doesn't enter into it, as (at least as far as I can see) we lack two competing theories which both equally explain the given phenomenon, but of differing complexity.

[Dahrken]

The answer is "not much", because since your actual Magic score is reduced to 0 thanks to the BC you generate, you are unable to use any magical ability (Street Magic p 118) - this probably include Counterspelling since it's a Magic-based skill.

You can still Assense and engage astral entities in astral combat (but don't forget you suffer from a -4 Visibility penalty), but it's because your dual-natured quality stays on even if your effective magic rating is being reduced to 0 (again, Street Magic p. 118 : "At the gamemaster's discretion, paranormal critters may also lose access to some of their critter powers as a result o a reduced Magic attribute." and the rules for Cyberzombies). Also Assensing and Astral Combat are respectively based on Intuition and Willpower rather than Magic.

[sabs]

It is quite reasonable to assume that the authors wrote it that way, because it was easier than to write:
if the character had magic before it goes down to 0, and then is raised to 1 by the process.

Also it says that the Magic Rating cannot be used by any means. This to me implies that it's a different Magic Rating than what you had as a magician or adept.

This is rules-lawyery-dickery at it's finest. this is like. "The definition of the word IS" level of rules lawyery.

[Edana]

Yeah, it's certainly not an unreasonable belief that it's a 'new' magic rating. I personally tend to take the approach of using what's written as opposed to what may have been intended when there's no evidence for either being more correct. (Given that cyberzombies were never really intended as a player choice, it was actually probably overlooked as not very relevant.)

It should be obvious that a cyberzombie's magic rating is not reduced by their own astral hazing, as any other interpretation means that cyberzombies can't exist, since the next paragraph after my quote says they die if their magic is ever reduced to 0 by any means. Depending on how loose you want to be with the interpretation of the hazing as a domain, this might be because the hazing is aspected towards the cyberzombie's magic.

Ultimately though, the cyberzombie rules really should be taken as the gamemaster guidelines they were intended to be. If I were actually trying to play one as a PC, I'd generally be asking the GM's interpretation of such things, since that's what really matters. If that's not an option, it's probably best to aim for the interpretation that keeps you in the same power level as the other players (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . (And I'm pretty sure that an actual magic-using cyberzombie is going to be pretty over the top for most games.)

[Manunancy]

With the way a cyberzombie's amgic is fixed at 1 no matter what, it's probably more a side effect of the binding magic acting a sort of filter between the character's soul and the astral than what an awakened metahuman gets to play with. Which in my opinion will destroy any sort of awakaned ability the character might have had before getting turned int oa cyberzombie.
An example of that would be Burnout, the CZ from the hearth of dragon trilogy. He was a former Aztechnology mage and didn't keep any of it's previous abilities. Though it's unclear wether he had already burned his magic out before getting turned into a cyberzombie or not.

That would in my opinion make theis magic rating it fixed for 'internal' purposes - the binding magic shields it from external factors - but affected normaly by background count and the like for 'external' purposes.

[sabs]

Wait does this mean that a CZ that walks into a BC 1 they're not aspected to, dies instantly?

[Stahlseele]

No, their own Background count of 4 would override that one i think . .

[sabs]

so they blow up if they walk into a BC of 5+

[Edana]

No, their own Background count of 4 would override that one i think . .

It's gloriously unclear (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . Street Magic doesn't have anything about how multiple background counts interact (that I can find anyway), because it can't happen under normal circumstances.

It does mean the quickest way to kill a CZ is to use a high force mana static spell. (Or an edged casting to unlink successes from force.)

[sabs]

with Edge to unhinge success from force is probably your better bet.

Also, go astral, and stun bolt him into the ground, while you keep him away with a mana barrier.

[Edana]

The problem with mana/stun bolt is that they have resistance tests associated with them. Mana static is a no save insta-death. You'd need to cast it at force 5 and get 5 or more successes using edge, which isn't terribly hard for a caster that would realistically face a CZ. (Force 5 because it'll be reduced to F1 by hazing, with edge to unlink successes you can keep the 5+ it takes to generate a BC of 5.)

Mana static is also a M spell, so you can still murder the CZ from astral space (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) .

[WhiskeyJohnny]

So how does our CZ, having gained the will to live, keep from being geeked by the next mage he runs across?

[Stahlseele]

By standing in a BGC of 4, which makes Spells of Force 4 and below simply fizzle?

[InfinityzeN]

All that assuming that the CZ's hazing doesn't override any other BC in -essence meters of them. Which would actually make right next to the CZ the safest place for a mage in space to be.

[Stahlseele]

All that assuming that the CZ's hazing doesn't override any other BC in -essence meters of them. Which would actually make right next to the CZ the safest place for a mage in space to be.

Ah, yes, the old idea of the dwarf cyberzombie torso without legs and arms strapped to the back of a troll or ork mage in space ^^