Help with a new Magic Tradition Please, Spoiler: Emerging players please do not read! Options

[Aria]

Hi, I'm looking for some help in creating something a little bit different (or pointing in the right direction) for a major NPC in my Emerging game...

I want a magic tradition that mixes old magic and new tech but hermeticism is a little dry and Chaos Magic is too bitty with something from everywhere...

I was thinking about a Quantum Tradition loosely based around predicting the possible outcomes of things and manipulation reality using a magic version of Quantum physics. Now my A-level physics was a looong time ago but I'm sure there are people here at DS who have more recent / better experience of it than me!

So is there any basis for this working in the SR world? What sort of spirits would they summon? Would ritual magics be able to predict and possibly shape the future? Is there anything else that a tradition like this might excel at?

Any help much appreciated!

[Makki]

I wrote something similar once. not sure I got it with me. The Magicians believed in manipulating time and space to some degree, even though other traditions claim it's impossible

[Kyrel]

Blargh. Good question. First of all, if I were you, I'd try to hammer out a little clearer just what it is you'd like this tradition to be able to do, and how. A lot of things become theoretically possible, once you start screwing around with quantum mechanics and theoretical physics, so there should be plenty of possible effects one might be able to play around with. However, if you want a "science" feel to your tradition, I'm having something of a hard time wrapping my head around suitable spirits for such a tradition. Guidance and Man probably, but I'm not so sure about the rest. To be honest, I'd be tempted to "go off the reservation" and make a character that combines the rules for technomancers and mages. I'd take suitable spells and play with their verbal descriptions, in order to get the right feel, and then I'd allow the mage to summon a combination of a couple of spirites, and a few sprites.

In the end I'd wind up with something like this:

Illusion: Guidance
Combat: Machine Sprites
Health: Man
Detection: Task
Manipulation: Fault Sprites
Watchers
Drain: Intuition + Logic

Treat the sprites as spirits with regards to drain etc. The caster is manipulating the hardware and software through magic, and is causing stuff to happen by manipulating probabilities through quantum mechanics or something.

This idea isn't thought through with all the possible consequences with regards to rules etc., so take it with a pound of salt and use it for inspiration or forget all about it at your leasure.

Have fun.

[Udoshi]

I kind of disagree with the sprite thing.

While it does make sense to SOME extent within the tradition, in the shadowrun universe its rather hard to affect unnatural things like computers with magic. Only -very- powerful people can do it (those who can regularly and repeatedly get 4-5 hits on spellcasting), and building a tradition around this would require a lot of magical experimentation.

Plus, i think mixing sprites and spirits is just plain wrong. The rules are pretty clear on the inability of a player to be have both awakened and resonance abilities. That looks munchkinney as hell.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, certainly no sprites. A magical tradition is just a magical tradition, like every other.

[Kyrel]

Guys. Don't think of the sprites I mention as Technomancer Sprites, but rather as a somewhat unique type of spirit connected to the tradition in question. We're only looking for something unique for this tradition in order to set it appart from all the other regular traditions. And as I understood, this tradition was meant to be something for a major NPC, not a player thing.

[Yerameyahu]

Heh, well you can see how 'Machine Sprites' and 'Fault Sprites' might confuse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I still say that non-insane traditions *shouldn't* be set apart: they're all the same thing. Hehe.

[crash2029]

This is a knotty problem. One the one hand magic in SR cannot change spacetime, on the other hand a Quantum tradition is pretty cool. The way I would deal with it is similar to psychics. That is the magician believes that his spells, spirits, and other hoodoo are manipulations of dark matter and zero point energy when in fact they are manifestations of mana. As for things like teleportation and the like, they would believe that they could never do it because in order to be sucessful they would need to know the location and movement of every particle of their intended load. Otherwise they could never reassemble completely. Basically Heisenberg believes in RAW.

Now for my Quantum Theurgist Tradition treatment:

Practitioners of the Quantum Tradition believe that their magic is actually an understanding of the fundamental forces of the universe. They believe that with knowledge and willpower combined with magical power they can manipulate spacetime itself. Of course other traditions think they are nuts and try to point out that all of the effects that Quantum Theurgists produce are similar to more mainstream traditions. And every time somebody asks a Theurgist to teleport or fold space or time travel they are met with a long, long, lecture on quantum theory, particle physics, and similar topics that boils down to Heisenberg kicked them in the nuts. Regardless of their views, Quantum Theurgists are magical practitioners who don't break the rules of magic.

Spirits
Combat: Man
Illusion: Fire
Detection: Guidance
Health: Water
Manipulation: Task
Watchers
Drain: Willpower + Logic

[Aria]

This is a knotty problem. One the one hand magic in SR cannot change spacetime, on the other hand a Quantum tradition is pretty cool. The way I would deal with it is similar to psychics. That is the magician believes that his spells, spirits, and other hoodoo are manipulations of dark matter and zero point energy when in fact they are manifestations of mana. As for things like teleportation and the like, they would believe that they could never do it because in order to be sucessful they would need to know the location and movement of every particle of their intended load. Otherwise they could never reassemble completely. Basically Heisenberg believes in RAW.

Now for my Quantum Theurgist Tradition treatment:

Practitioners of the Quantum Tradition believe that their magic is actually an understanding of the fundamental forces of the universe. They believe that with knowledge and willpower combined with magical power they can manipulate spacetime itself. Of course other traditions think they are nuts and try to point out that all of the effects that Quantum Theurgists produce are similar to more mainstream traditions. And every time somebody asks a Theurgist to teleport or fold space or time travel they are met with a long, long, lecture on quantum theory, particle physics, and similar topics that boils down to Heisenberg kicked them in the nuts. Regardless of their views, Quantum Theurgists are magical practitioners who don't break the rules of magic.

Spirits
Combat: Man
Illusion: Fire
Detection: Guidance
Health: Water
Manipulation: Task
Watchers
Drain: Willpower + Logic

Now we're cooking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Exactly the sort of thing I was after! Will probably add in a bit of foretelling but that's already a metamagic so fits fine...

[Dahrken]

Now we're cooking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Exactly the sort of thing I was after! Will probably add in a bit of foretelling but that's already a metamagic so fits fine...

That is the realm of the Divination metamagic - which does not show you what will happen but what is likely to happen.

[Aria]

That is the realm of the Divination metamagic - which does not show you what will happen but what is likely to happen.

Even better, seems to fit with the randum quantumness of it all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) - I had intended it to be a metamagic not an new thing for the tradition...this is for an initiated NPC after all

There are a number of spells already that could be said to affect space/time - increased reflexes for example which 'slows' time from the perspective of the recipient... illusions could be said to be tapping in to the 'alternate quantum realities' ...it's all about the perception of the magic, never mind that it is identical in working to a shaman or a hermetic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)