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> Large anthroform drone, based on a car... with mimic ?, What can "it" look like in game ?
Quake
post Jan 22 2011, 06:56 PM
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What would this monster physically look like ?

Hyundai Shin-Hyung
slots : 14 | body 10 | base armor 5 | 17000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Rigger adaptation, 1 slot, +2500
Walker mode, 2 slots, +5000
2x Mechanical arms, 4 slots, +8000 (add cyberarm mods to taste...)
Touch Sensors, 1 slot +5000
Chameleon coating, 1 slot, +10000
Standard armor, replace armor by 20, 1 slot, +4000
Turbocharger, 1 slot, +4000 (20*10*20)

(Overmod.) Pimped ride (humanoid shape) , 1(0) slot, +5000 (10*500)

(3 slots left)

It's a car, with Pimped ride , touch sensors, walker mode, etc. I assume it's a "large" drone.

Would this be the size of a troll or larger ? How can this be represented in-game ?

EDIT: Removed Mimic, added Pimped ride (humanoid shape).
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KarmaInferno
post Jan 22 2011, 07:01 PM
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Jebus, much larger than a troll.

You might be able to get away with making a Horseman look like a troll. Not a compact car.

At best it'd look like some sort of Transformer with a human head stuck on it.

A better use for Mimic would be a car with a fake human driver, so it can be remotely controlled without appearing to be remotely controlled.




-k
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Mardrax
post Jan 22 2011, 07:55 PM
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*chuckle*
Add yourself a weapon mount and call it Hot Rod.

I guess it would be the size of a car, plus legs which should be somewhat longer than the length of the car's body, to not look stumpy.
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Manunancy
post Jan 22 2011, 09:31 PM
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Considering a car's size, that would put it a something like four to five meter tall (say 15 feet). That's taller than even the tallest trolls metavariants. In keeping with a car's proportions it's probably about 2 meters wide (6+ feet) and probably nearly as thick.

It will look like a severely overgrwon troll or giant built like a brick craphouse. There's no chance that anyone will fail to notice it.
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 23 2011, 12:27 AM
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It really seems like a stretch of the Mimic mod, for the cost. After all, you've taken a car, added robot arms and legs. It's still a car with arms and legs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Neraph
post Jan 23 2011, 05:06 AM
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H8RS!

At the tables I play in, taking a vehicle and adding Walker Mode and two full mechanical arms gives you essentially an anthroform drone of a size equal to the nearest-bodied metatype. The main downsides are essentially: 1) you spent a lot of mod slots to make it anthroform, 2) no passengers, and 3) it's still considered a "vehicle chassis," meaning lower vehicle armor and it doesn't automatically come with a rigger adaptation.

Because at the end of the day, a vehicle with body 6, walker mode, 2 full mechanical arms, 6 mod slots, and one with body 6, walker mode, 2 full mechanical arms, and 0 mod slots are different in thematics alone (and mod slots).

For example: a Thundercloud Contrail with walker mode, 2 full mechanical arms, and a rigger adaptation is Bod 6, +2 handling, comparable acceleration to a metahuman's walk/run, comparable size to a metahuman, and cheaper than some vans, but has 3 mod slots left over. Comparatively, the Otomo has the same mods, twice the mod slots, and is prohibitively expensive, both in nuyen and availability.

EDIT: Basically my argument is this: if you're shelling out the money for the mods and willing to forego some of the bells and whistles (the above vehicles not allowing passangers), why not simply say that the resulting vehicle is a "variant model" or its own classification with the mods you paid for being stock and the remainder the actual mods left over?
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 23 2011, 05:12 AM
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Is that a RAW argument? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yes, the real problem is no (sufficiently runner, yet accessible) anthroforms in the book, which forces otherwise sane players to do that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Neraph
post Jan 23 2011, 05:15 AM
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I shoulda disclaimer'd: it's a house-rules-y homebrew. Hey, I do those too.

Basically, from a RAW standpoint, Quake - No. If you want to houserule it or something - sure. I'd pass it.
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KarmaInferno
post Jan 23 2011, 05:19 AM
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The problem is, Neph, is that Body isn't always a good indicator of size.

A troll is pretty big, but a Shin-Hyung is really going to be considerably larger, heavier, and bulkier, even if they have the same Body.

Trying to actually pass it off as a troll isn't going to be very easy.

Nobody's saying it can't be made to operate like a humanoid robot. It's the "disguise it as a troll" that's a little hard to swallow.




-k
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 23 2011, 05:24 AM
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Technically, the Mimic mod says 'anthroform drones only'. (Aside: and it really should be some kind of scalar cost or something.)

Anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It depends on the table rules you're using, as Neraph said. If you're playing it RAW and/or literally modifying a car, then you can't even have Mimic in the first place. If it's a 'variant model', then it's a *giant* humanoid, heh.
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Neraph
post Jan 23 2011, 05:33 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 22 2011, 11:19 PM) *
A troll is pretty big, but a Shin-Hyung is really going to be considerably larger, heavier, and bulkier, even if they have the same Body.

Yes, but using the stats and cost of a Shin Hyung for the attributes of an anthroform is another thing entirely - which was my point if you could find it.

Again, what is the difference between a Thundercloud Contrail and an Otomo? Standard upgrades, speed, and acceleration. And availability/price. My point being that their body is the exact same. So what's the difference between a Contrail with Walker/2 Full Mechanical Arms and an Otomo? Price/availability, acceleration is more similar, body is same, and now the upgrades look very similar. And what exactly would be the difference of going another step and saying that there's a "Centurion" humanoid drone that has the same availability, cost, and stats as a Contrail with Walker/2 Full Arms, rigger adaptation, but is a Humanoid Walker instead of a Wheeled Groundcraft?
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KarmaInferno
post Jan 23 2011, 06:13 AM
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The Otomo (and Tomino, really) are anomalies. They really SHOULDN'T have Body ratings that high. None of the other drones of their general physical size and structure have even close to those ratings.

They're not a great basis to compare to.

Which is why I said Body isn't the best scale to determine Size with.




-k
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Neraph
post Jan 23 2011, 06:37 AM
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Trolls are really anomolies. As are orks. I mean, they're Body attributes say that they should be waaaaay larger than they really are. Same goes for humans under the effects of an Increase Body spell, boa constrictors, and alligators. Should all be way bigger - like Mini Cooper big.

EDIT: Or rather - Body determining size is a really, really weak argument.
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Quake
post Jan 23 2011, 03:36 PM
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I can perfectly well understand how the argument could be made that a "car", turned into an anthroform vehicle, would be larger than a troll. Obviously, I wasn't sure if it made consensus.

But I do not see why it couldn't be shaped as an anthroform vehicle and thus become elligible for Mimic and "looking like" a real giant (3.5-4.5 meters tall) made of flesh.

Also : a motorcycle, classified as medium (bordering on large) by the "Drone size" table in Arsenal, and medium including dog and human-sized drones, I seriously think is can be done to have a sort of "orc-sized" Thundercloud Contrail modded as an anthroform vehicle. And if is has Mimic or, for less realistic skin, Pimped ride (shaped like an orc), then it should be pretty close-looking, no ?

--
And, as a side note : assuming a drone (controlled by an AI) can be made to have the same size as an orc, could this medium drone be seated inside a larger anthroform drone (a sort of mecha) and could the orc-sized drone directly connect its home node (or its Cluster of nodes) to the larger mecha and control it? Can a drone node (in a cluster or not) plug directly into a vehicle and substitute for the larger drone's node ? The point would be to have an AI that never leaves it's home node, yet controls a larger drone.

Picture a medium orc seated in a thing like this : http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs32/f/2008/204..._by_torokun.png
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Stahlseele
post Jan 23 2011, 03:41 PM
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Like a Transformer.
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KarmaInferno
post Jan 23 2011, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jan 23 2011, 01:37 AM) *
Trolls are really anomolies. As are orks. I mean, they're Body attributes say that they should be waaaaay larger than they really are. Same goes for humans under the effects of an Increase Body spell, boa constrictors, and alligators. Should all be way bigger - like Mini Cooper big.

EDIT: Or rather - Body determining size is a really, really weak argument.

Oddly I am saying the exact same thing as you but I think I MEAN something entirely different.

Body and physical size often do not correlate with each other. Therefore Body is a poor statistic to use when comparing sizes.

Ignoring Body for a moment, about the largest vehicle I could see justifiably being able to made to look like a troll is a Horseman.

Not "vaguely troll shaped". I mean actually built so it could pass itself off as a troll. Even on close inspection. Because that is what Mimic is designed to do.

Anything larger is simply too large to pull this off. It's going to look like a giant, even for a troll, with a troll head attached to the top. It's going to be noticeable ad largely defeat the entire purpose of putting in Mimic, which is to avoid certain kinds of attention. People are going to more likely say, "Dear god what is that thing with a troll's head grafted to it?" rather than "That's a big troll!"



-k
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 23 2011, 04:17 PM
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Quake, under the RAW, it's *not* a car "turned into an anthroform vehicle". It's a car with robot arms and Walker Mode. As a houserule, you can certainly change that reality. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Quake
post Jan 23 2011, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 23 2011, 05:17 PM) *
Quake, under the RAW, it's *not* a car "turned into an anthroform vehicle". It's a car with robot arms and Walker Mode. As a houserule, you can certainly change that reality. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


But if you search for "Anthroform" in Arsenal, it seems the only qualifying drone is the Otomo... which already has Mimic... Both the Tomino and Akiyama are "Cyborg Walker" Drones. It doesn't seem the designers were consistent on that front : they invented a Pilot skill for Anthroformn vehicles, but designed almost none that could be piloted.
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 23 2011, 04:33 PM
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I agree. As I said earlier, they didn't *give* us any anthroforms. The Mimic option is basically there so you can read about it from the Otomo description. Sadly, this is 100% *consistent*, just lame. Look on the bright side: the fact that it's impossible to ever use is a decent explanation for why the Mimic mod has such silly slot/Nuyen costs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Quake
post Jan 23 2011, 05:13 PM
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Also, what about the people's/authorities' perception of an anthroform vehicle ? Could someone walk around with one and not be outright attacked by military-level threats ?

Take the example vehicle up above : if you add enough detail so that it "looks like" a construction vehicle (like the Beaver's "Special Equipment
(Construction tools)
"), or any other kind of social utility vehicle... Tt would need to have "concealed armor", and concealed weaponry in general. Could it be socially perceived as non-threatening ? (assuming licenses and stuff are OK)
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 23 2011, 05:28 PM
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Are you altering the game world ('the anthro is a known vehicle from a big corp') or are you fielding a unique, custom unit? For the former, it probably depends a lot on reputation. If all anyone knows about are gimpy robo-butlers, horrifying Renraku deathbots, current T-100 assassin droids, and crazy Robocop tank-walkers… yeah, could be a problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Quake
post Jan 23 2011, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 23 2011, 06:28 PM) *
Are you altering the game world ('the anthro is a known vehicle from a big corp') or are you fielding a unique, custom unit? For the former, it probably depends a lot on reputation. If all anyone knows about are gimpy robo-butlers, horrifying Renraku deathbots, current T-100 assassin droids, and crazy Robocop tank-walkers… yeah, could be a problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Well, as you might guess, I'm undecided between the ogre/troll-ghoul character versus the AI-in-android character concept. But this is basically for the same "Euroforce" special forces campaign. I also managed to get a hold of the GM, and he told me we were expected to be a pretty unusual unit, which contained marginal elements of society, telling me ghouls could join. He told me the group was somehow related to Saeder-Krupp and, having read that Saeder was sympathetic to AI rights, I guess this could pass. I asked him about AI, and he said he needed to look at the particular AI, and especially the drone. In general, infiltration missions, and some pink-Mohawk was to be expected. He said there wouldn't be a "typical" mission type, and that he'd do various things. But, being part of a Gov./Corp. organization makes it easier to insert some concepts that would usually be considered too risky for shadowrunners.

The man-sized android would be more for infiltration, and the larger one for special situations I'm guessing. Obviously, I'd prefer both specializations to be in the same drone and have the ability to mesh the large android into society, walking it around town disguised as a construction tool.

EDIT: Perhaps the easiest way to walk this drone around is on a large drone rack ? A GMC Bulldog Step-Van is BOD 16 and can hold a large drone rack (requiring BOD 15).

The question then becomes : do drone racks conceal their charge ? if yes, then how well ?
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