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> Elven Gunslinger Adept - Comment & Critique, Background still needs work
ShadowFighter88
post Feb 1 2011, 06:23 AM
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Link to character sheet


This is my first Shadowrun character and I started off basing him on the example gunslinger adept in the core book and then modifying him til it felt right. Odds are I've made some utterly stupid mistake or chosen Adept Powers that just aren't as good as I thought. Some parts of the sheet are still empty but they're minor things (like Composure or Judge Intent - stuff that's derived from other stats) so they can wait.

The concept is that he's the son of someone higher up in Knight Errant (not stupidly high up, but in a position where he's more of a desk-jockey than pounding the pavement) and his mother was a shadowrunner from Australia (this might be a cliché, but for now it's all I can come up with) before retiring from that and working an online auction house for gaming memorabilia*. Why he becomes a 'runner instead of working for Knight Errant is because it seems his mother's shadowrunning days have caught up with her, or it seems that way at least.

She's vanished and his father's hands are too tied to properly look for her, especially since it could reveal her less-than-legal past and get her locked up for god-knows how long. The adept suggests that a shadowrunner could track her down, but his father doesn't trust 'runners, so the adept suggests he become a shadowrunner to look for her. His father objects, but relents in the end as it's his only option.

From there, he sees the one person he knows who has connections to the shadowrunning world - a talislegger that his mother saw. This talislegger was his mother's main contact in the underworld after she moved to the States and the 'legger, in turn, tries to help the adept find his mother.

I probably haven't explained it all well, but that's pretty much the state of the background so far. As you can see; I haven't come up with any names yet. The idea of having him as a KE corp-kid is to explain the Trust Fund quality and his high knowledge of KE security procedures. His mother's online store was because I always wanted this guy to have an interest in the gaming classics (I don't mean stuff that's coming out this year either, I mean stuff that's classic even today - Deus Ex, the Monkey Island series, Sam & Max: Hit the Road, etc), as well as some of the classic BBC comedy shows (like Blackadder or Red Dwarf) rather than any trid or simsense remakes which wouldn't be as good as the originals (let's be honest here; if Red Dwarf, Blackadder or Dad's Army got remakes, do you really think they'd be as good as the originals?).

I was hoping to squeeze in Etiquette with a speciality in Knight Errant or just Law Enforcement, but didn't have the BP to get it anywhere near high enough. If you grow up in the KE corporate world you'd expect that the skill'd at least be at Rating 3.

I used Daegann's character builder for this. That and half of the character was built at least six months ago and has just been sitting on my hard drive since then so if any of the numbers in brackets are off, let me know since I may've removed whatever was providing the bonus and forgotten about it.



* (old copies of games from our time or before, books for RPGs, tabletop wargaming miniatures, etc - there's bound to be a bit of a collector's market for this stuff even in the 2070s).


EDIT: I think he might also need a fake license or two for his Predator IV and I may have bought too much ammo.

EDIT2: Almost forgot; his starting nuyen (if it matters) would be 8D6x100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
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Kyoto Kid
post Feb 1 2011, 07:40 AM
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...interesting. I'll have to dig up the 4th edition version of my namesake I built. Granted the costs for some of the powers were a bit different back then (built under the first printing of the BBB and Street Magic).

She was also pretty good with a blade and fists but her twin Super Warhawks (she had the Ambidexterity quality) with EXEX did a lot of the "talking". This version of her was also a bit of a burnout (effective MA of 4) as I gave her Synaptic Boosting instead of the adept Improved Reflexes power.
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bluedao
post Feb 1 2011, 08:31 AM
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Your background has some depth and personality. Yeah the details could be flushed out but the core is their. Their is a negative quality in RC called lost loved one iirc. You might want to look at taking that. Your build makes the min/maxer in me cry, but then that's probably a good thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) . The stats strike me as realistic if not optimum. I would check with the gm to see what the other players style is. If their mostly not power gamers you should be fine. But if your runner is going to be the only non optimized character you may find your self frustrated with his lack of power. I'm not sure why you like trust fund so much but meh.

Background questions:
How did his parents meet.
How does his mothers criminal past sit with his father.
What political enemies does the family have and how would his mothers past coming to light change things.
How could they use her disappearance?
Who else in KE knows about her past and how much of a black eye would it be to KE and how likely are they to try and hush things up.
Could his father have done it if someone was threatening to use her against him or KE?
Could his mother have made her self disappear if someone was threatening to use her against him or KE?
Even if none of the above are true your runner could still consider them as possibilities, leading to some good rp.
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Feb 1 2011, 02:38 PM
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Check the errata, Improved Reflexes 2 costs 2.5 now, so that means you have an extra 0.5 power points. I would get Boost Agility 1 and another power that costs 0.25.
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Makki
post Feb 1 2011, 02:42 PM
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nimble fingers is a must have for gunslinger adepts
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 1 2011, 02:58 PM
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Did you decide not to use 'ware or did the thought simply not occur to you? Muscle toner and/or synaptic Boosters will go a long way. As for more BP, I'd drop Edge to 1 and buy it later on. But that's just personal taste.

I don't know how up to date Daegann's Character Editor is, but DamienKnight's pretty much includes all the books and Errata.

I'd go all out (5-6) with combat sense or not bother at all.

I guess using pistols is part of the concept, otherwise I'd suggest switching to automatics.

What will the character do in a violent situation without his weapons?
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warrior_allanon
post Feb 1 2011, 04:17 PM
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i have to agree with Dakka, take that final point out of agility and kick the points it eats into strength and body, as well as an unarmed combat skill, maybe use that extra half magic point and the BP from the negative quality that Blue Dao mentioned to build it up.

those are just min/max thoughts from someone who spent 7 years tweaking characters so that he could have a Gunslinger adept archtype that could survive the blood lust games that i tend to find
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ShadowFighter88
post Feb 2 2011, 12:57 AM
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NOTE: Quote tags weren't working in the preview; I don't know if that's just a bug with previewing posts of if I've messed up somewhere. Just warning you guys. Also had to split this into multiple posts because the forum has a limit on how many quotes you can have in a post.

QUOTE (bluedao @ Feb 1 2011, 06:31 PM) *
Your background has some depth and personality. Yeah the details could be flushed out but the core is their. Their is a negative quality in RC called lost loved one iirc. You might want to look at taking that. Your build makes the min/maxer in me cry, but then that's probably a good thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) . The stats strike me as realistic if not optimum. I would check with the gm to see what the other players style is. If their mostly not power gamers you should be fine. But if your runner is going to be the only non optimized character you may find your self frustrated with his lack of power. I'm not sure why you like trust fund so much but meh.


Don't have a game lined up, I'm just making this guy in-case one turns up on Myth Weavers (since I'd get writer's block if I tried to create a character from scratch after the game's ad thread goes up). I will keep that in mind though. And I might look into that negative quality, see if it'd work for the character's mother without having Oedipus complex overtones. As for trust fund; I just don't like how SR handles Lifestyle and Trust Fund stops me worrying about it. Plus it adds to the image of 'corp-kid-turned-shadowrunner' which is what I was going for with this guy.

QUOTE
Background questions:
How did his parents meet.

In a club a few weeks after she moved to the UCAS. Saw a fair bit of each other for a while after that, then a few month's later his team gets called in to stop some Shadowrunner's escaping. The 'runner leader made a break for it while her team kept the KE officers tied up. He went after her and caught her after putting a bullet through her leg. Needless to say, he was shocked to find out who was behind the helmet she was wearing. Despite his training telling him to cuff her, he let her go. He isn't entirely sure why and just put it down to youth-and-love-induced stupidity. In any case, that injury to her leg (while not causing permanent damage) did make it harder to go on runs, and since she was an adept she didn't want any 'ware for fear of losing her power (which was naturally so unstable she needed to take a talisman geas - which also seems to be a hereditary trait).
QUOTE
How does his mothers criminal past sit with his father.

At first he didn't like it, but he soon learnt that she didn't have much choice after being laid off by <insert Australian Megacorp here> where she used to head up a security team. She didn't have any other skills (her online auction house wouldn't be set up for several more years) and none of the other corps would hire her because of why she'd been fired (they'd accused her of letting a 'runner team get away with valuable research). He still doesn't like shadowrunners - too many bad incidents while he was still an active officer - but her contacts in the underworld can come in handy at times. Besides, he knows she's out of the game and trusts her not to risk her life by going back.
QUOTE
What political enemies does the family have and how would his mothers past coming to light change things.

Even without political enemies, her past coming out would cause a political sh*tstorm. I still haven't worked out his position in KE, but it's high enough to get access to case files, personnel records and so on. There'd be a massive inquiry and he'd be charged with corruption (if only so that they could throw him in a cell while they see if there's anything to suggest corruption). She would be arrested for all of her past crimes and then I don't know what would happen to him if they decided to charge him with letting her go.

I haven't thought of any political enemies, but anyone that high in KE is bound to have some. Hell, there might even be people in other corps who would use this getting out as a way to really hurt KE as a whole. Letting a bent cop get that high up in the corp? It'd be hell.
QUOTE
How could they use her disappearance?

Well until they find out she used to be a 'runner, they can't. As far as they know, she just runs a legit online auction house.
QUOTE
Who else in KE knows about her past and how much of a black eye would it be to KE and how likely are they to try and hush things up.

No-one beyond my character and his father know about her past. If her past came to light, KE would try to handle it all in-house. Like I said above, they'd go after him, but they'd make damn sure not a word of it got out to the press or other megacorps (or at least the reason for his arrest).
QUOTE
Could his father have done it if someone was threatening to use her against him or KE?

If he was the one to make her disappear, he would've told his son and she would've had as much of a hand in planning it all as him. She's the one with underground contacts after all - street docs, fixers, old friends from her shadowrunning days, etc.
QUOTE
Could his mother have made her self disappear if someone was threatening to use her against him or KE?

Possible if she didn't have time to let them know. Even if she contacted them using a fake SIN, her husband and son's commlinks would be monitored for any incoming calls (probably under the assumption she'd been kidnapped).
QUOTE
Even if none of the above are true your runner could still consider them as possibilities, leading to some good rp.

That was part of the idea behind having his mother disappear; plus the DM can work it into the plot if he wants to. Regardless of the game, I like to leave the occasional hook in my character's backstory for them to use if they want to.

QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Feb 2 2011, 12:38 AM) *
Check the errata, Improved Reflexes 2 costs 2.5 now, so that means you have an extra 0.5 power points. I would get Boost Agility 1 and another power that costs 0.25.

Thank you for pointing that out. Should really get around to finding the errata.
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ShadowFighter88
post Feb 2 2011, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE (Makki @ Feb 2 2011, 12:42 AM) *
nimble fingers is a must have for gunslinger adepts

Thank you for pointing that power out; I can see why it's a must-have.

QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 2 2011, 12:58 AM) *
Did you decide not to use 'ware or did the thought simply not occur to you? Muscle toner and/or synaptic Boosters will go a long way. As for more BP, I'd drop Edge to 1 and buy it later on. But that's just personal taste.

Didn't want to use 'ware since I designed this character as though his adept powers were already unstable (hence the talisman geas) so he'd be rather paranoid about anything that could dull his magic, like an Essence hit from 'ware. Might drop a couple points of Edge, though.

QUOTE
I don't know how up to date Daegann's Character Editor is, but DamienKnight's pretty much includes all the books and Errata.

I'll have a look for his once I finish this post.

QUOTE
I'd go all out (5-6) with combat sense or not bother at all.

I'd rather keep it at 2 for now; don't have the power points to spare and I'd rather hang onto that Improved Ability one.

QUOTE
I guess using pistols is part of the concept, otherwise I'd suggest switching to automatics.

Might look into it if a SR game turns up on Myth Weavers, depending on what everyone else's character has (ie; if there's a troll with a light machine gun, I don't think my character using a pistol or an SMG is going to make much difference in the long run). Although, are there any full-auto/burst-fire pistols? Like the Glock 18 and Beretta 93R in real-life?

QUOTE
What will the character do in a violent situation without his weapons?

At this point? Leg it or try to nick/borrow someone else's pistol. Might be able to free up some BP to get him some melee skills though. I'm just reluctant to make this guy good in melee since, between the ablinism and his talisman being a silver wolf's-head with ruby eyes, I'm trying not to make him seem like an elven, cyberpunk version of Geralt of Rivia.


QUOTE (warrior_allanon @ Feb 2 2011, 02:17 AM) *
i have to agree with Dakka, take that final point out of agility and kick the points it eats into strength and body, as well as an unarmed combat skill, maybe use that extra half magic point and the BP from the negative quality that Blue Dao mentioned to build it up.

those are just min/max thoughts from someone who spent 7 years tweaking characters so that he could have a Gunslinger adept archtype that could survive the blood lust games that i tend to find

Might follow your advice just so that he's got something he can do if ever disarmed. I'm not trying to go too far to the min/max end of the spectrum.

I'll make some changes now, see what I come up with.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 2 2011, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE (ShadowFighter88 @ Feb 2 2011, 01:57 AM) *
I'll have a look for his once I finish this post.
It's over there.

QUOTE (ShadowFighter88 @ Feb 2 2011, 01:57 AM) *
Might look into it if a SR game turns up on Myth Weavers, depending on what everyone else's character has (ie; if there's a troll with a light machine gun, I don't think my character using a pistol or an SMG is going to make much difference in the long run). Although, are there any full-auto/burst-fire pistols? Like the Glock 18 and Beretta 93R in real-life?
There are no stock FA pistols. There are several BF Pistols, but most of them are used with the Automatics skill. That skill is much more versatile.
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ShadowFighter88
post Feb 2 2011, 02:06 AM
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Thanks. Just finished rebuilding my character in DamienKnight's builder and I've noticed something (other than the builder not having the Trust Fund quality - used Biocompatibility (Bioware) as a placeholder since it has the same BP cost). According to it, I've still got twelve BP left.

Either I've done something wrong somewhere or I might just be able to get him some melee skills.

Also, I think I'll stick with the Predator, just how I picture the character.

EDIT: Found half the problem; Knight's builder has a house rule for free BP to buy contacts on by default so it was ignoring the six BP it costs for that talislegger. Still got six points left though. Might be enough for some hand-to-hand skill.

Oh, and warrior_allanon? That last point in Agility would only free up ten points. This guy's an elf so his unaugmented max Agility is 7, every point below that only costs ten BP.
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ShadowFighter88
post Feb 2 2011, 11:09 AM
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Okay, made some changes.

-Added "Lost Loved One" Negative Quality
-Halved how much spare ammo he had (from 150 rounds down to 75 - if that isn't enough then they should've hired someone with a minigun)
-Added the Blades active skill at Rating 1 with a specialisation in knives (he sees hand-to-hand as a last resort so wouldn't bother with a full-blown sword)
-Bought him a knife, but I don't know whether to stick with that or get something better that still counts as a knife (got 505 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) left before needing another BP that I don't have, another 20 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) if I ditch the ordinary knife)

The changes have already been made to the sheet linked in the first post.

I thought about dropping a point or two of edge, but I'm not sure. I'll do some fiddling around, see how many BP it gets me and what I can use it for.


EDIT: Okay, quick bit of tweaking and if I drop two points of Edge, I can bring his Blades and Perception both up to 4 and his Pistols skill to 5. Can't put them into Body since I'd need 25 BP. Tempted to put them into Strength, but I don't see this guy as really using Strength all that much. Unless there's something I've forgotten/missed about Strength?
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 2 2011, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE (ShadowFighter88 @ Feb 2 2011, 12:09 PM) *
-Added the Blades active skill at Rating 1 with a specialisation in knives (he sees hand-to-hand as a last resort so wouldn't bother with a full-blown sword)
I would use Unarmed combat as a last resort. You don't need any equipment for it, and you can get nifty upgrades like shock gloves.
QUOTE (ShadowFighter88 @ Feb 2 2011, 12:09 PM) *
-Bought him a knife, but I don't know whether to stick with that or get something better that still counts as a knife (got 505 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) left before needing another BP that I don't have, another 20 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) if I ditch the ordinary knife)
Get a survival knife. For 30¥ mire you get better AP, and a couple of other goodies. I just found out that the Cougar Fineblade, according to fluff one of the best combat blades, has the same stats as the suvival knife minus the tools, and costs 11 times as much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)
If you want something really concealable, take a look at the Victorinox Memory Blade.

QUOTE (ShadowFighter88 @ Feb 2 2011, 12:09 PM) *
I thought about dropping a point or two of edge, but I'm not sure. I'll do some fiddling around, see how many BP it gets me and what I can use it for.
10 or 20 BP can be well spent in a lot of places.

Don't forget some prgrams for your commlink. At least Analyze should be there.

[nitpick]Specializations don't increase the skill, but add bonus dice and should be noted as Skill(Specialization) Rating(+2). Mostly this is irrelevant, but there are situations where it is crucial that they are dice pool modifiers, for example a maxed out skill, dual wielding etc.[/nitpick]

Unless you absolutely need the +2 dice for the concept or the dice pool on the first run, I would buy specializations with Karma. It's much cheaper that way.

And get some stealth. Otherwise you will have lots of problems with the shadow part of shadowrunning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Maybe Athletics 2 Stealth 2.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 2 2011, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE (ShadowFighter88 @ Feb 2 2011, 12:09 PM) *
-Added the Blades active skill at Rating 1 with a specialisation in knives (he sees hand-to-hand as a last resort so wouldn't bother with a full-blown sword)
I would use Unarmed combat as a last resort. You don't need any equipment for it, and you can get nifty upgrades like shock gloves.
QUOTE (ShadowFighter88 @ Feb 2 2011, 12:09 PM) *
-Bought him a knife, but I don't know whether to stick with that or get something better that still counts as a knife (got 505 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) left before needing another BP that I don't have, another 20 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) if I ditch the ordinary knife)
Get a survival knife. For 30¥ more you get better AP, and a couple of other goodies. I just found out that the Cougar Fineblade, according to fluff one of the best combat blades, has the same stats as the survival knife minus the tools, and costs 11 times as much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)
If you want something really concealable, take a look at the Victorinox Memory Blade.

QUOTE (ShadowFighter88 @ Feb 2 2011, 12:09 PM) *
I thought about dropping a point or two of edge, but I'm not sure. I'll do some fiddling around, see how many BP it gets me and what I can use it for.
10 or 20 BP can be well spent in a lot of places.

Don't forget some prgrams for your commlink. At least Analyze should be there.

[nitpick]Specializations don't increase the skill, but add bonus dice and should be noted as Skill(Specialization) Rating(+2). Mostly this is irrelevant, but there are situations where it is crucial that they are dice pool modifiers, for example a maxed out skill, dual wielding etc.[/nitpick]

Unless you absolutely need the +2 dice for the concept or the dice pool on the first run, I would buy specializations with Karma. It's much cheaper that way.

And get some stealth. Otherwise you will have lots of problems with the shadow part of shadowrunning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Maybe Athletics 2 Stealth 2.

With BOD 5 I would buy better armor. An FFBA full suit and a helmet would easily fit with the ensemble you already have. Against real opposition I'd go with
FFBA Full Suit, all PPP items, Globetrotter Camouflage Jump Suit. 13/11 armor, no encumbrance at BOD 5

If you buy chemical protection anyway, why not take a gas mask, it helps with hiding your face as well.

Instead of AR gloves, buy a Sim module and a trode net. Much less conspicuous and skinlink your commlink, glasses and weapon.

What do you need a fingerprint/ retina reader for?

Unless not all equipment is listed and you already have it, a medkit would be a nice addition.

A wedge also is a cheap and useful tool.
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WearzManySkins
post Feb 2 2011, 01:55 PM
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If you have WAR! there is a nice option for firearm types
High-Power Chambering doubles the cost of the weapon but gives you the ability to fire high powered rounds which do +2p -1AP which would turn your Ares Predator IV into 7p -2AP, but you would have to mod the weapon to deal with the -2 points of excess recoil.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 2 2011, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Feb 2 2011, 02:55 PM) *
but you would have to mod the weapon to deal with the -2 points of excess recoil.
The -2 is not clearly noted as a recoil modifier at least this modifier works different than normal recoil. So it is not clear if RC would work.
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WearzManySkins
post Feb 2 2011, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 2 2011, 08:04 AM) *
The -2 is not clearly noted as a recoil modifier at least this modifier works different than normal recoil. So it is not clear if RC would work.

QUOTE
High-power rounds inflict a –2 dice pool penalty when fired due to excess recoil.

No worse than recoil mods needed for shotguns and the big game rifles.
Make the predator have electronic firing or personalized grip reduces it to a -1
Also a Strenght of 10+ basically provides 2 points of recoil compensation.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 2 2011, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Feb 2 2011, 04:03 PM) *
No worse than recoil mods needed for shotguns and the big game rifles.
What now? Shotguns only have their uncompensated recoil doubled, and then only if they are fired in burst-fire mode. I am neither aware of any special rules for big game rifles, nor of that weapon type in general.
If you are talking about the double-barreled rifle (PJSS Elephant Rifle) which can fire both barrels at once, those are the standard rules for a short burst with not enough bullets.
The modifier for high power ammunition even applies to the first shot, which no recoil should ever do.
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Feb 2 2011, 04:03 PM) *
Make the predator have electronic firing or personalized grip reduces it to a -1
Also a Strenght of 10+ basically provides 2 points of recoil compensation.
Without the optional rule of strength providing RC I'm not aware of a way to reduce the HP Predator's recoil to 0, short of adding stupid things like stocks and foregrips. If that's even how it works.
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Squinky
post Feb 2 2011, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 1 2011, 08:20 PM) *
It's over there.

There are no stock FA pistols. There are several BF Pistols, but most of them are used with the Automatics skill. That skill is much more versatile.


Pistols by RAW, regardless of firing mode, use the Pistol skill. Are you referring to machine pistols or a houserule here?
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 2 2011, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE (Squinky @ Feb 2 2011, 04:29 PM) *
Pistols by RAW, regardless of firing mode, use the Pistol skill. Are you referring to machine pistols or a houserule here?
I'm saying that most pistols capable of doing BF are machine pistols and thus use the Automatics skill. The light and heavy pistols that do BF have the disadvantage that, at least according to RAW, they cannot be specialized in.
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WearzManySkins
post Feb 2 2011, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 2 2011, 09:23 AM) *
What now? Shotguns only have their uncompensated recoil doubled, and then only if they are fired in burst-fire mode. I am neither aware of any special rules for big game rifles, nor of that weapon type in general.
If you are talking about the double-barreled rifle (PJSS Elephant Rifle) which can fire both barrels at once, those are the standard rules for a short burst with not enough bullets.
The modifier for high power ammunition even applies to the first shot, which no recoil should ever do.
Without the Advanced rule of strength providing RC I'm not aware of a way to reduce the HP Predator's recoil to 0, short of adding stupid things like stocks and foregrips. If that's even how it works.

Corrected that for you. To many the Advanced Rules are not a optional thing.
But again the writer of that did not clarify/specify if that recoil mod is once only or per shot?
But we are basically back to the FUBAR recoil rules of SR4A, Firing a Machine Pistol for Full Auto versus a Heavy Machine Gun on Full Auto are vastly different to me atleast due I have fired both in RL. Same for firing a SA 9mm Glock versus a .600 Nitro Express on SS.
But since this is SR4A the recoil can be dealt with under the existing rules. ie Electronic Firing, and Under-barrel Weight giving another so then the Predator modded to fire High Power Rounds no longer has the -2 recoil mod to deal with.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 2 2011, 05:15 PM
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QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Feb 2 2011, 06:03 PM) *
Corrected that for you. To many the Advanced Rules are not a optional thing.
The introduction to this chapter clearly states that all those rules are optional. We cannot know if the OP's GM will use those rules, yet. So I wouldn't count on the usage of said rules (especially the sillier ones).
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Feb 2 2011, 06:03 PM) *
But again the writer of that did not clarify/specify if that recoil mod is once only or per shot?
I don't get what you are trying to say here.
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Feb 2 2011, 06:03 PM) *
But we are basically back to the FUBAR recoil rules of SR4A, Firing a Machine Pistol for Full Auto versus a Heavy Machine Gun on Full Auto are vastly different to me atleast due I have fired both in RL. Same for firing a SA 9mm Glock versus a .600 Nitro Express on SS.
I don't have RL experience with guns so I cannot comment much on that, but even in SR those two are handled differently, at least in regards to the effect of uncompensated recoil.
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Feb 2 2011, 06:03 PM) *
But since this is SR4A the recoil can be dealt with under the existing rules. ie Electronic Firing, and Under-barrel Weight giving another so then the Predator modded to fire High Power Rounds no longer has the -2 recoil mod to deal with.
This is still a -1 to the dice pool of the second shot, if the HP dice pool modifier can be compensated as normal recoil.
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WearzManySkins
post Feb 2 2011, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 2 2011, 09:46 AM) *
I'm saying that most pistols capable of doing BF are machine pistols and thus use the Automatics skill. The light and heavy pistols that do BF have the disadvantage that, at least according to RAW, they cannot be specialized in.

Interesting
Hold Out-Walther Palm Pistol
Light- Beretta 101T, Fichetti Executive Action, Taurus Multi-6, and Yamaha Sakura Fubuki
I would go back what table the weapon is in...Ie Hold Out, Light Pistol, which means I can specialize in Hold Out Pistol which includes the Walther, or in Light Pistol which could be the Beretta, so yes you can specialize in pistols that burst fire and not have to use Machine Pistol skill.
Yes I agree the Semi-Automatics which should state Heavy Pistol.
So I take a Ares Predator IV mod it to FA I can no longer use my pistol skill to fire it?
The Firing Selection Modification do not discuss that moving a weapon of FA or BF changes it to Machine Pistols or the like.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 2 2011, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 2 2011, 10:15 AM) *
This is still a -1 to the dice pool of the second shot, if the HP dice pool modifier can be compensated as normal recoil.


And this is different How, from Pistols that only have a Single point of RC (or none at all)? High Power firearms just have an inherent 2 points of Recoil before they are fireed that you muct contend with. If you have RC, then it would apply, in my opinion... Just like any other weapon that has recoil...
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 2 2011, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Feb 2 2011, 06:20 PM) *
Interesting
Hold Out-Walther Palm Pistol
Light- Beretta 101T, Fichetti Executive Action, Taurus Multi-6, and Yamaha Sakura Fubuki
I would go back what table the weapon is in...Ie Hold Out, Light Pistol, which means I can specialize in Hold Out Pistol which includes the Walther, or in Light Pistol which could be the Beretta, so yes you can specialize in pistols that burst fire and not have to use Machine Pistol skill.
Yes I agree the Semi-Automatics which should state Heavy Pistol.
So I take a Ares Predator IV mod it to FA I can no longer use my pistol skill to fire it?
The Firing Selection Modification do not discuss that moving a weapon of FA or BF changes it to Machine Pistols or the like.
Yes Hold-Out is a valid specialization by RAW. Light or Heavy Pistol however aren't as they are not mentioned in the Pistols skill description. I would not have a problem with them at my table, but we are discussing RAW here not houserules.

I cannot say if the developers meant to write Heavy Pistol when they wrote Semi-.Automatics. As written this specialization also includes all light pistols and hold outs as long as they are semi-automatics as well. Specializations are not mutually exclusive.

The modded Predator of course is still fired with the Pistols skill, but, as it no longer is a Semi-Automatic, this specialization no longer applies, at least if it is fired in BF. There is no RAW Specialization that applies to BF Heavy Pistols.
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