What happened to all the Lone Star Beat cops? Options

[Mardrax]

Um, wait, why are you running INTO Aztlan?

Because they're my brothers in blo... I mean, because no one would expect me to. And they're friendly. AZT gives me food, you know. And if someone gives me food, they [b]have/b] to be the good guys.

[Kagetenshi]

They got a job with Knight-Errant?

Lone Star employment contracts contain some of the most draconian anticompetition clauses ever written. According to the letter of these clauses, any Lone Star employee who leaves the corporation may not work for a corporation that "directly, indirectly, or substantively competes with LSSS" for four years. Lone Star's legal department has a vested interest in defining its "competition" as broadly as possible, of course. Strictly speaking, anyone who leaves the Lone Star fold, from a staff sergeant to a data processing clerk to a senior VP, may not work for any corporation that even uses a security department for four years.

That represents the theory. Practically, of course, even Lone Star finds it difficult, if not impossible, to enforce these conditions. Lone Star employment contracts are executed, and thus considered valid, in the national jurisdiction of the country in which the corp is currently operating and in the corporate jurisdiction of LSSS Inc. itself. Like any other contract, other extraterritorial corporations generally do not consider Lone Star contracts valid within their corporate jurisdiction.

So there's precisely no chance whatsoever that KE hired any former Lone Star personnel beat cops for their Seattle contract, nor that anyone else hired them for non-extraterritorial work.

~J

[Fauxknight]

other extraterritorial corporations generally do not consider Lone Star contracts valid within their corporate jurisdiction.

Lone Star still has to trim thier crew and KE has to pick some up. Its going to happen.

[Mardrax]

Plenty of penpushers and other on-site staff may have been transferred to work in the shiny new KE offices. I don't think Ares applies too much meaning to LS contract requirements, and good luck getting the extradition treaties signed and sueing them for breach of contract when on another nation's soil.
LS suspending ex-employees' SINs for this would result in a PR disaster KE would gladly work.

[Sengir]

So there's precisely no chance whatsoever that KE hired any former Lone Star personnel for their Seattle contract, nor that anyone else hired them for non-extraterritorial work.

I'm pretty sure Ares is more than willing to ligitate against this minor technicality, to cherry-pick useful employees and to screw over LS once more. It violates our god-given right to free trade and the plaintiff no longer is a competitor for bludgeoning law enforcment services in the Seattle Metroplex, yadda yadda. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Kagetenshi, you didn't even read your own quote: "Practically, of course, even Lone Star finds it difficult, if not impossible, to enforce these conditions." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mäx]

So there's precisely no chance whatsoever that KE hired any former Lone Star personnel for their Seattle contract, nor that anyone else hired them for non-extraterritorial work.

You should really read what you quoted again, as it's says the exact opposite of what you did (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[nylanfs]

So there's precisely no chance whatsoever that KE hired any former Lone Star personnel for their Seattle contract, nor that anyone else hired them for non-extraterritorial work.

~J

Plus those clauses only apply to the employee's leaving the company, not getting fired. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mardrax]

Plus those clauses only apply to the employee's leaving the company, not getting fired. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Leaving is not by definition a voluntary action. If you're fired, you leave a company as much as when you quit.

[ProfGast]

For the record, here's a few MORE relevant quotes, with some bolding emphasis from me

> Another thing they don’t mention is that Lone Star is still active in the me-
troplex, but largely banished to the Barrens and some small fiefdoms (and
oh so bitter about it). See my commentary there and in the Corporations
section of the document for more.
> Hard Exit

Of course, no discussion of Ares in Seattle would be complete without talking about Knight Errant, their security services subsidiary. The Knights only recently moved to the top-slot of security service contractors in the metroplex, taking the spot formerly held by Lone Star Security Services. This meant a major increase in the size of their Seattle operation in a fairly short period of time. Fortunately, KE had been planning for the day they would take over in Seattle, and their training academy has been working overtime to turn out new officers. As a stopgap they’ve hired a lot of contract workers, including quite a few former Lone Star employees, but they’re requiring anyone who wants a permanent job to go through academy training.

As it happens, taking care of prisons is the main thing Lone
Star still does in Seattle. The company retains its contract to run
the metroplex-controlled prisons, which is separate from their
security and enforcement contract. Lone Star also still has some
private security contracts in Seattle, although they are fighting
to hold on to them following the gut-punch of their dismissal by
Governor Brackhaven.

> Don’t completely count Lone Star out in Seattle yet. Keep in mind that they
did retain one significant chunk of their old law enforcement contract: they
still manage the metroplex prisons. The ‘Star has always had a more stronger
division of corrections than Knight Errant, which has always relied on sub-con-
tractors or partnerships to deal with prison administration. Some see leaving
Lone Star with prison-duty as a kind of punishment, but prisons are where a
lot of the money is in law enforcement, and Knight Errant’s new law and order
crusade promises to fill them up and bring in even more prisoner stipends, a
cut of which goes right into Lone Star’s account.
> Danger Sensei

[CanRay]

One thing I remember reading (Can't remember where) was that Lone Star also owned Parkades. Which means that if KE wants to search a vehicle in one, they'd have to get permission to go on Lone Star Territory to do so.

Lone Star used it to get around needing search warrants to search automobiles parked in their Parkades, as they're not in the UCAS, and thus not protected under the same laws, and, of course, it's good business.

I can see a really bitter Lone Star Beat Officer made Collection Booth Guy that would really help 'Runners with making sure their vehicles are never searched for a bribe. Especially if they have a decent enough Rep.

[kzt]

Luckily the courts don't care how "civic-minded private citizens" come by evidence that get's turned over to the courts. Somehow I don't see UCAS in the 6th world as enhancing the exclusionary rule. Heck, the courts right now don't care exactly how it is suspects were found and produced.

[Ryu]

For the higher-end jobs, training alone could take four years. So the recruits go to academy on their own cost, receiving work contracts starting in four years with a generous welcome payment. Sponsorships for exceptional students would also be par for the course.

[Sengir]

One thing I remember reading (Can't remember where) was that Lone Star also owned Parkades.

Not every building owned by an corp subsidary is extraterritorial (board search should yield some book quotes, it's been discussed a couple of times) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And logically there has to be some sort of incentive NOT to make something extraterritorial. If it was so easy to skip estate taxes and fire regulations, every piece of Seattle would be non-UCAS territory by now...

[CanRay]

Not every building owned by an corp subsidary is extraterritorial (board search should yield some book quotes, it's been discussed a couple of times) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And logically there has to be some sort of incentive NOT to make something extraterritorial. If it was so easy to skip estate taxes and fire regulations, every piece of Seattle would be non-UCAS territory by now...

I know about the extraterritorial clauses (Has to be a designated area that's clearly marked as owned by a AA- or AAA-Level Corporation. Has to have a wall, a hedge or other such structure counts, and so on.).

In this case, I remember they advertised "Lone Star Parking" to make it extraterritorial.

[kzt]

In this case, I remember they advertised "Lone Star Parking" to make it extraterritorial.

That's what I want, a place where if my car is stolen or vandalized or has evidence planted in it I can't sue the company responsible. Great selling point!

[Kagetenshi]

Lone Star still has to trim thier crew and KE has to pick some up. Its going to happen.

And put them where? When they hit the Seattle streets they need to pick themselves up for felony interference with employment contract.

I'm pretty sure Ares is more than willing to ligitate against this minor technicality, to cherry-pick useful employees and to screw over LS once more. It violates our god-given right to free trade and the plaintiff no longer is a competitor for bludgeoning law enforcment services in the Seattle Metroplex, yadda yadda. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Have you looked at how much Lone Star cops got paid? I'll give you a hint, they could not afford a Middle lifestyle out of their salary—this is not top talent worth fighting for. Though I guess I did say "personnel", that was sloppy (no, actually, simply wrong—I've fixed it).

Kagetenshi, you didn't even read your own quote: "Practically, of course, even Lone Star finds it difficult, if not impossible, to enforce these conditions." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You should really read what you quoted again, as it's says the exact opposite of what you did (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

There certainly is a reading comprehension problem around here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) "These conditions" are keeping anyone who held any position whatsoever from working in any position at any corporation that has a security department. It doesn't suggest any sort of trouble preventing going to work at another security company.

Plus those clauses only apply to the employee's leaving the company, not getting fired. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You have an admirable, if mystifying, amount of faith in Shadowrun-era worker's rights.

~J

[CanRay]

That's what I want, a place where if my car is stolen or vandalized or has evidence planted in it I can't sue the company responsible. Great selling point!

The flip-side is that it's a place that's secured by "THE POLICE!", which Lone Star has relentlessly used PR to make Seattle (And their other contractees) view them as. It's more a matter of, "I know my car is safe with Lone Star! If it's broken into, they'll find the criminals responsible and prosecute them to the fullest extent of their law!" *Shows a Lone Star Officer with a heavily beaten Ork Ganger in the Background* "Thank you, Lone Star, for making me safe!"

Remember, Shadowrunners and ShadowTalkers on the Black BBSes/Forums know this is how the world works, John Q. Wageslave thinks quite differently.

Aztechnology grows them good, wholesome food. Ares is as American as Apple Pie and Firearms. Evo is providing services/material for the various "Special Needs" Metahumans to bring peace in our time. That sort of thing.

S-K being the exception. Nothing makes a Great Dragon Fluffy, even Dunkie had an uphill battle in getting elected President, and lost out to a raging racist by only a few percentage points.

[Ascalaphus]

But then, S-K is only openly active in high finance and heavy industry, not in end-consumer products. That's what innocent-looking subsidiaries are for.

[Saint Sithney]

Finally, Ares isn't as racist as Lone Star (Then again, HUMANIS is about the only group that is more racist than Lone Star), which means a lot of Metahumans that have been applying for police positions have finally found they have interview options open to them...

You might be confusing LS with the Metroplex Guard? I know the Army stationed at Seattle was notoriously racist, but I recall LS being functionally racist. IOW, they'd regularly hire Orks and Trolls for brute-squad positions, but wouldn't give them any positions of authority.

[CanRay]

Wasn't so sure on the "Regularly" part myself, so I showed them off as racist when I GMed. Trolls and Orks were Point Men on HRT and SWAT as "Meat Shields" for example, and often in the "Riot Squad", the most hated unit around, but rarely in any other position. I was a bit more lenient for Elves, but Dwarves were also given a hard time (Hard to catch perps when you're half their height. Stupid stubby legs.). But that was my read, that's all.

The Metroplex Guard, if I were to ever run them, would be like the US Army in the South Park movie, "Operation: Hide behind the Trogs".

[Grinder]

Except that there's an issue of citizenship. Lone Star Officers are citizens of the country of Lone Star Security. Knight Errant (A wholly-owned subsidiary of Ares) Officers are citizens of the country of Ares Macrotechnology.

Iirc only AAA-level corps can hand out citizenship. Ares is one, but LS isn't, so there won't be any Lone Star citizens.

[Kagetenshi]

I'm pretty sure every extraterritorial corp, or every AA-and-up by definition, can hand out citizenship.

Edit: as evidence, Corporate Download talks about the large number of corporate citizens the Big Ten have, implying that they're not the only ones that have them.

~J

[Grinder]

Oh the confusing topic of extraterritorial questions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Does LS have extraterritorial status?

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

If they are a AA corp, the yes. Yes, they have. I'm not with my copy of corporate download right now, but I think Lone Star is not a AA corp.