Erased-Broken or Not?, How to fix? Options

[Stormdrake]

I have a player with the edge of "Erased" and I find it very broken. Is it just me? Has Catalyst ever offered a better explanation of how this works rather than treating is as a "Hand of God?" The fact that it wipes out all records any where makes it way over powered and while the text says "all but the most secure systems" that just leads to more arguments. Rather than just banish it from the game I wanted to see if anyone had come up with a reasonable fix.


Erased
Cost: 5BP or10BP
Better than SINless—the character with this quality officially
doesn’t exist and never did; someone or something actively works to
remove her traces from the system. Maybe it’s an elite hacker who owes
her a favor or an AI she befriended, but the end result is that her data
trail and records vanish from all but the most secure systems shortly
after being entered. For 5 BP, criminal SINs and unwanted data disappear
within a week. For 10 BP, any SIN, undesirable credit history, or
personal information on the Matrix that she wishes is burnt after 24
hours. Obviously, the eraser will preserve any data the character wishes
preserved and that is vital for her to function in society. Note that vanishing
data may prove an unwanted complication if the character is
in custody or doing prison time (the Man may “forget” she is there).

[sabs]

I do have a reasonable fix for Erased.

Make it cost 15/25BP
Make it so that the person cannot take Criminal SiNer with it.
If the person does not take the flaw SiNer to go along with it, then they don't exist, period. This causes background checks to fail horribly, all the time. But, luckily even wanted posters of you don't stay around for very long.
If you take SiNer than your 'legit' SiN is pretty much protected, up to a point.

[Makki]

I never use it without an appropriate contact and background story.
For my current char, a face, the "Eraser" is a nerdy guy and a very good friend who I occasionally set up with ladies he would be to shy to talk to. Barney-Wingman style.

[ProfGast]

One way I like to look at it, the 10 bp version of erased: is it anything a 5/5 Hacker contact WOULDN'T be able to do for you?

[Aerospider]

One way I like to look at it, the 10 bp version of erased: is it anything a 5/5 Hacker contact WOULDN'T be able to do for you?

Interesting point, but a hacker two levels above 'professional' will charge handsomely and not as a one-time purchase. Also, they will quite likely have many and much more interesting offers compared to tidying up after you, making the 24-hour response time in the quality quite special.

I suppose you could buy a Loyalty 6 contact and actually save a few BP, but without the contact getting anything for their efforts the rating should soon drop.

Not that I think the quality is over-powered, but it's of more than trivial interest.

[ProfGast]

Oh I agree normally a contact would charge for services, and even a loyalty 6 one would probably not run it indefinitely for free. HOWEVER, I still look at it as giving a 10 point contact (5/5, 4/6 whatever) without actually gaining any other contact abilities except for erasure. In my mind that makes it pretty balanced, and even more realistic if you actually take the contact on top of that. I figure the erasure isn't just an "I owe you" but also a "this is in my interests. Possibly even my best interests."

[CanRay]

Well, if you take into consideration (As I would) that the PC doesn't know who is erasing him... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[CanRay]

Double Posts seem to be the theme for me today.

[Ascalaphus]

The quality strikes me as a kind of escape clause for players who'd rather play loose and fast instead of Minority Report style.

It appeals to me because I like pink mohawk and because it's powerful. It repulses me because it looks like rather shoddy game design. It just feels kind of fuzzy magical somehow. Ugly. But powerful.

[KCKitsune]

I took the 10 pt Erased positive quality and a Loyalty 6/Connections 4 Technomancer as a contact. That's the way that I think that you take this quality. Otherwise it's like Canray said:

Well, if you take into consideration (As I would) that the PC doesn't know who is erasing him... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

Just imagine the look on your Runner's face when he finds out that the person who is doing this for him is associated with Insect Spirits... or worse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[CanRay]

"Dude, the person that was erasing your criminal history was YOUR MOM?" "Shut up..."

[Faraday]

How about an AI who likes eating your SIN info?

[CanRay]

"Om-nom-nom!" "Let me in, house! It's me! You know me, I've owned you for ten years!"

[onlyghostdancesw...]

I would personally have it become a pet project of some newshound out to make it big... great quality until one day they are rejected by their
"hero" then all of the sudden that quality will become really really nasty.

[SpellBinder]

Don't forget that sometimes info you don't want erased just might be erased after all. Just like it's suggested in RC & SR4a, if the shadowrunner is in prison or doing time, the Man might 'forget' he/she is there (the Eraser burns away all of your criminal records, but you're still in jail?).

[hyzmarca]

In theory, Erased is an incredibly powerful Quality that any runner would love to have.

In practice, generally falls somewhere between mildly useful at best and a pointless waste of BP at worst.

Shadowrun assumes that the PCs will be shadowrunners. Let's remember what shadowrunners are, for a moment. You're the faceless anonymous gun-whores who megacorps hire because no one knows who you are and because no one gives a rats ass who you are. Not a single person who actually matters would trade the amputated hindquarters of a rodent for information about you.

This is a major assumption of the setting and it is necessary for continued fun gameplay. If the opposition actually tried to mine data on the runners in game then your campaign would be a single failed run followed by several sessions of doing nothing but hiding in a hole and then being dragged out of that hole of police and going out in a blaze of glory.

In practice, GMs are going to ignore the little shit like datatrails because if they didn't then their game would crash and burn. The developers know (?) this and so this fact has been accommodated since SR1 was first published. It really doesn't matter how much data is out there about you, unless you do something incredibly stupid that puts you on someone's better off dead list or your GM needs a plot hook.

In practice, Erased is a plothook deterrent, nothing more. It works in that regard about as well as you expect. If your GM is wants to railroad you, it doesn't matter that you have the trait. If your GM doesn't want to railroad you he'll think of a different plothook, possibly one that is better and more sadistic.

In setting, Erased is absurdly useful if you want to maintain a life in the burbs with two point three children PTA, homeowners association, and all that jazz. It lets you be a runner by night and soccer dad by day and no one would be the wiser (unless they dig up your basement and find that you've stashed three tenths of a child down there, then the police will be grilling you about where the other seven tenths of him are).

In practice, it won't stop a GM who sees a plot hook and if you're vested in your character's family then you shouldn't play with a GM who will revel is butchering them like so much meat.

In setting, it should be helpful when running in areas known for tighter security, less corrupt police, and having giant sicks up their asses, like London or Portland. In practice, no sane GMs is going to charge you a 10 BP for the right to do exactly what they want you to do in the first place no GM they aren't going to pick an obscure high-security setting unless that's what he really wants. In shuch a campaign, data trail elimination should be part of general and miscellaneous expenses if the GM bothers with it at all.



As a Quality, its really only useful if your PC wants to become a big player. It would let him do shit that should put him the the must die list of several megas and government and get away with it, for a while. Most GMs would shut that down for being too munchkin. It would also let him run for office, assuming that he has a valid SIN (or a decent fake). Most GMs would shut that down on account of that fact that they're trying to run a game of Shadowrun, not a mock parliament. In that vein it is the Quality you take if you want to be able to do world-changing things that don't involve blowing people up, but it really only works if your GM lets it. And even then it sort of amounts to a 10 BP surcharge for what your GM was going to let you do anyway, because there is enough wiggle room in Erased to really screw you over if that was your GM intends, and most good GMs won't let Erased stop plothooks.


Erased can be a safety net if you get caught doing a run. But if you get caught then it is likely the entire team is compromised, in which case Erased is pretty much useless unless they all have it. Few GMs would split the team up and run their flights from justice separately , after all, and fewer still would allow major plot-relevant firefights to happen in downtime. Erased might save you a little money when the shit hits the fan, if the GM decides to charge you extra for emergency data trail elimination. But it is not likely to save you 10 BP worth of money, unless you get caught far too often, or have a GM who charges too much for such services.

That being said, it's something cool to have. If you're willing to pay the BP for the cool, then go for it. It'll make you like Jason Borne, or something. The price is about right for that.

[Draco18s]

QED.

Reminds me of why I don't take Common Sense. Common Sense is that quality for players who have never played before or are unfamiliar with the system and allows the GM to go, "a little voice inside you tells you that's FUCKING DUMB. Care to rethink?"

Though I did play a character who could have used it, but hey, I was playing the pampered college kid with no street sense. Its my own damn fault I assumed that all of the dead bodies meant that all the hostiles were already gone and got myself shot.

Admittedly I didn't do it intentionally, it just kind of happened.

But hey. That's the character I was playing, so I rolled with it. Did it again about a session later too, again, by accident (there was something keeping to the shadows and I had another task on my mind, so I ignored it, got pounced on by a rabid awakened kangaroo).

[Eratosthenes]

Just think of the fun you can inflict on the PC's, if have them have to track some target with this quality. Everything they log something in their commlink about their mark...poof, it mysteriously disappears. And they can't find anything with a data search, forcing them to go old school. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[CanRay]

Actually, talking about Erased has given me one hell of a good idea for a character.

Just in time for a Shadowrun GM to contact me, as he's starting to try and get a group together. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hopefully it happens, as I like this character concept.

[Glyph]

Hyzmarca has already hit why this quality is mostly flavor when you look at it from a metagame standpoint. Generally, I would get this either for a chameleon face or infiltration expert (as part of their overall sneakiness), or for one of the more pink mohawk options (SURGE with glamour, etc.), to make such a character's continued existence slightly more plausible.

It is already fairly balanced. One, it has the clarifying exception for the "most secure" systems, meaning that the GM has some recourse if he doesn't want for some particular bit of data to completely disappear. Two, it mentions that, even though the character has some control over what gets erased or not, it can still be a complication. So there really isn't anything game-breaking in it.

[CanRay]

Another way to balance "Erased" is to take inconsideration that it only refers to Datatrails... Dead Tree Format files are still very useful in a lot of ways!

Also, it does nothing for memories. That cop you mooned last week is still going to remember your Hoop a week from now.

And, as Hardison put it once, "I can't hack a Hillbilly!"

[Smokeskin]

In theory, Erased is an incredibly powerful Quality that any runner would love to have.

In practice, generally falls somewhere between mildly useful at best and a pointless waste of BP at worst.

Shadowrun assumes that the PCs will be shadowrunners. Let's remember what shadowrunners are, for a moment. You're the faceless anonymous gun-whores who megacorps hire because no one knows who you are and because no one gives a rats ass who you are. Not a single person who actually matters would trade the amputated hindquarters of a rodent for information about you.

This is a major assumption of the setting and it is necessary for continued fun gameplay. If the opposition actually tried to mine data on the runners in game then your campaign would be a single failed run followed by several sessions of doing nothing but hiding in a hole and then being dragged out of that hole of police and going out in a blaze of glory.

I don't agree.

Runners are expected to take care not to leave data trails behind. And yes, we as GMs let them get away with that, if they put some effort into it and exercise some constraint on what they can and can't do.

Erased chars don't have that problem. They can be all sorts of obvious about their mayhem.

Erased isn't just about not getting caught. It is much more about freedom of action.

[CanRay]

Erased is good for those characters that don't have any computer skills. Of course, you'd expect those folks to have Hacker contacts, or to pay their Fixer to erase embarrassing things...

But I came up with, what I hope, is one hell of a character based on the Quality.

[hyzmarca]

I don't agree.

Runners are expected to take care not to leave data trails behind. And yes, we as GMs let them get away with that, if they put some effort into it and exercise some constraint on what they can and can't do.

It's impossible for runners not to leave data trails behind. I don't mean that it is very difficult, I mean impossible in the same sense that I'd say it was impossible for your PC to eat the sun. It simply cannot be done in setting. It never could be done, not even in SR1. Balkanization and extraterritoriality simply meant that it was harder for people to connect the dots.

But in SR4, where everybody and his mom has an active comlink 24/7, there is no way in hell. You might be able to avoid leaving Data trails if you go run exclusively in Angkor Watt and even then that's iffy (I wouldn't be surprised if the Naga liked their MTV).

Erased chars don't have that problem. They can be all sorts of obvious about their mayhem.

Characters who play Pink Mohawk in a Black Suit game are going to get headshotted by a sniper no matter what qualities they have. As has been stated, you can't hack a hillbilly. Erased doesn't destroy physical records or human memories.

[Eratosthenes]

Yea, the goal's not to not leave *any* data trails. The goal is to not leave any *obvious* data trails. As long as yours is just another line of noise in the stream, you're alright. With cybereyes (with cameras) so ubiquitous, you're bound to be picked up on someone's MoSoSo blog from time to time just walking down the street. But then, so is every other person out there. It's like a criminal lineup, except with the entire population to choose from. Don't stand out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Frag seven gangers while the bar's security feed is watching and you're wearing a pink frilly bathrobe? You'll be on the 10 o'clock news. Gank a few lowlifes in a dark alley in a bad part of town? Ho hum.