Essence Drain Dilema, How do you handle the part that stays? Options

[sabs]

It would make much more sense, and be much much cooler if they actually lost the essence used for power boost. I have issues with a Vampire that when well fed cannot use his powers? I think that the 12 hour requirement is a mistake. Vampires should be able to use their essence to raise anything they want, at any time. With a few caviats.

5+Initiate Rank - essence loss OR Temp Essence Rating, which ever is lower = Max Magic Rating

If you're a Vampire Mage with a 9 Magic rating (you're an initiate) you cannot allow your Essence to drop bellow 5. Otherwise, you risk losing a permanent point of Magic.

You can't boost your Magic Rating to 18, by spending Essence, because, that lowers your essence, which lowers your Magic Rating. That's a fairly good limitation. Now, a purely Physical Vampire, could be spending and raising physical stats, though he has to be careful with his Essence and any bioware/cybeware. If his essence drops bellow 0, he's going to die. That's a limiting factor there too.

So, if you're a vampire with no cyberware, who can spend essence to raise his stats. You're only marginally better than an Adept or Cybered character. If you're a Mage, then you can only give yourself a slight boost. You have to keep in mind that your Magic Rating Maximum = Current Essence+Initiate grade. You can temporarily go over that, but only for 12 hours. And you have to be careful not to dip your current essence down bellow your actual magic rating.

Example:
Nosferatu has a Magic Rating of 9 (4 initiate grades)
Nosferatu has currently 18 essence. He can spend up to 13 points of essence for temporary stat boosts before running into any problems.

Cyberware and Bioware eats into their Maximum Magic Rating.

[Neraph]

... Because the writers of the game decided so? Because, if my interpretation is used, it prevents an Infected who locks their whole total from auto-dying when the 12 hours is out and they reach 0 Essence? Because, under my interpretation, it prevents Infected from having to "eat" like 2-3 people every 12 hours (nosferatu still have to do like 1-1/2)? Because they didn't consult you or me before they wrote it?

[sabs]

they only have to east 2-3 people a day if they use their powers all the time.

[Neraph]

... I (as the GM) am a bit concerned about balance issues.

I'm sorry, I just noticed this. Allowing Special Infected (those with Essence Drain [throwout to L4D]) throws balance out the window, generally. I've got a character build called the Blood Lord who becomes a godling in 35 karma based off a 400 BP Nosferatu. Unless you're making fairly liberal decisions for the rest of the group, that one nosferatu destroyed your game balance.

they only have to east 2-3 people a day if they use their powers all the time.

Why wouldn't they? The SINless population is large enough where no-one will be missed, and in a Z-zone, you're easily the Biggest Bad in town. There's nothing to stop you from staying well fed - especially if built right.

[Mardrax]

Why wouldn't they? The SINless population is large enough where no-one will be missed, and in a Z-zone, you're easily the Biggest Bad in town. There's nothing to stop you from staying well fed - especially if built right.

Because even SINless people have friends, relatives, neighbourhood watch programs or gangers to keep other gangers out.
And one person might not be able to hurt you, 5 people might find it difficult, but an entire neighbourhood will bring you down if someone can organise them. Kill enough people, and someone will.

It's the same thing that keeps sammies from going to town with their HMG and using the barrens for target practice, or indiscriminately killing everyone in a uniform. (yes, even the cook and the window cleaner)

[Yerameyahu]

Neraph, that's kind of my point. I think they *should* risk tapping themselves dry if they choose to… tap themselves dry. They *should* have to be a ravenous predator if they're burning it all on powers instead of saving it. Obviously, I'm not talking about RAW, just commenting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sabs]

Why wouldn't they? The SINless population is large enough where no-one will be missed, and in a Z-zone, you're easily the Biggest Bad in town. There's nothing to stop you from staying well fed - especially if built right.

Because a Vampire that can potentially live forever, should really be smarter than that.
A) You're NOT the biggest bad in town.
B) SiNless pop knows runners.
C) SiNless pop knows ALOT of runners.
D) A couple of mages, and some street sams can do horrible things to a Vampire.

[Neraph]

Because a Vampire that can potentially live forever, should really be smarter than that.
A) You're NOT the biggest bad in town.
B) SiNless pop knows runners.
C) SiNless pop knows ALOT of runners.
D) A couple of mages, and some street sams can do horrible things to a Vampire.

Maybe, but not for the ones I run. I AM the biggest bad in the Z-zone, the SINless can't really pay 'runners to take me on (or at least can't recompense them properly), it doesn't matter how many they know, and you assume they can even find me in the first place.

And only the stupid Special Infected eats a whole meal in the same neighborhood. For example, you make liberal use of Compulsion and Suggestion powers to get a whole neighborhood to willingly offer themselves as your meals, and only drain 1 Essence from each. Then you get them addicted to Renfield (which you can make easily) and have them go hunt for offerings. Do that for a week maybe and move on.

Of course a straight-up drain-till-dead Special Infected will get found quickly - that's why the ones that survive are so dangerous. And hell, the Nosferatu may even prey on the stupid vampires who do what you're assuming I'd do. Or even prey on feral ghouls - he'd be the Batman of the Z-zone sewers. Or at least the Dexter.

Neraph, that's kind of my point. I think they *should* risk tapping themselves dry if they choose to… tap themselves dry. They *should* have to be a ravenous predator if they're burning it all on powers instead of saving it. Obviously, I'm not talking about RAW, just commenting.

Interesting. I like it. That'll probably work its way into my "Shadowrun : X :: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 : Pathfinder" system I'm working on.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, my guess is that the RAW Essence Drain/boost system is deliberately idiot-proof. You can't go nova, and even getting yourself low takes concerted effort and/or a long time, and then you *still* have like a month (a week?) to feed again.

[TygerTyger]

I'm sorry, I just noticed this. Allowing Special Infected (those with Essence Drain [throwout to L4D]) throws balance out the window, generally. I've got a character build called the Blood Lord who becomes a godling in 35 karma based off a 400 BP Nosferatu. Unless you're making fairly liberal decisions for the rest of the group, that one nosferatu destroyed your game balance.

How so really? They start with far less attractive stats and skills, owing to that massive investment for the special quality. Sure, they can bump up a single stat once per run, but really, except for boosting the magic attribute, even that isn't all that crazy.

Why wouldn't they? The SINless population is large enough where no-one will be missed, and in a Z-zone, you're easily the Biggest Bad in town. There's nothing to stop you from staying well fed - especially if built right.

You may be the biggest bad, but your head is worth more to others than it is to you... that bounty makes it so that if you do try too much overt action, the wrong (right?) people will notice, and then you are dodging those with the ability to take you down. Hell, a SINless with a hunting rifle and patience is a legitimate threat to your survival. One head shot, you're dead.