 Ancient elves, slumbering dragons... vampires? |
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 Feb 8 2011, 08:30 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 17-November 09 From: Halifax Member No.: 17,884  |
Canon, could a vampire have existed pre-awakening? HMHVV II is a magical disease, so it would have required a spike or something to infect someone - so is there anything in canon that would permit it?
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Feb 8 2011, 08:35 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,989 Joined: 28-July 09 From: Somewhere along the brazilian coast Member No.: 17,437 |
I remember people discussing that some rare and pretty local mana spikes happened during the 5th World. There could be the possibility of HMHV virii infecting people during these periods, but I don't know what would happen to them after the spike ended.
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Feb 8 2011, 08:44 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,147 Joined: 2-May 10 Member No.: 18,539 |
I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the antagonist of Nosferatu, an elven nosferatu, was a fairly old spike baby. Like, old as in born in the 1800's. I think he got infected around that time too, but I am not sure.
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Feb 8 2011, 08:45 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 689 Joined: 16-September 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 5,623 |
As dragons were able to sleep through the 5th world in their lairs, it is just possible that a vampire could have pulled it off as well. If I remember correctly, dragons create a type of cacoon that they sleep the low mana cycle out in. If that is right then (if the gm wanted it)it is possible that a vampire could pull it off.
The only issue would be their loss of essence unless of course the cacoon or what not stopped that as well. |
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Feb 8 2011, 09:32 PM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
I think their Air Dormancy prevents Essence Loss... if not in text then in RAI.
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Feb 8 2011, 09:53 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 17-November 09 From: Halifax Member No.: 17,884 |
So possibly if the vamp was created / infected during a spike, and then went dormant, they could have survived? But not if they tried to remain active throughout all that period.
Is that an accurate assessment? |
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Feb 8 2011, 10:04 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 14-April 09 From: Madison, WI Member No.: 17,079 |
There are vampires in Shadowrun? That seems unnecessary.
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Feb 8 2011, 10:04 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,083 Joined: 13-December 10 From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Member No.: 19,228 |
Vampires are immune to aging. They could stay active indefintely. Psychological issues aside, they really shouldn't have much standing in their way to reach insane levels of power.
HMHVV however, is an awakened virus. A virus evolves. Is HMHVV the same as it was milennia ago? Are vampires now the same as then? Who knows? I find it unlikely. |
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Feb 8 2011, 10:19 PM
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#9
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
QUOTE (Semerkhet @ Feb 8 2011, 05:04 PM)  There are vampires in Shadowrun? That seems unnecessary. There are, and they sparkle in the sunlight. |
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Feb 8 2011, 10:21 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,917 Joined: 31-December 06 Member No.: 10,502 |
Well once you get into the territory of the novels, a number of the "spike babies" were immortal elves, and the immortal elves had turned into immortal humans during the low period.
Now vampires seem like prime candidates for having origins as horrer constructs. So they could have been around back then. And maybe they had some similar experience compared to the elves (becoming immortal humans during the down time). Or they simply went dormant and were an immortal "corpse" until the forces animating them kicked back in. |
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Feb 8 2011, 10:37 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,989 Joined: 28-July 09 From: Somewhere along the brazilian coast Member No.: 17,437 |
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 8 2011, 07:19 PM) There are, and they sparkle in the sunlight. If by sparkle you mean they slowly burn, yeah, they sparkle in the sunlight. |
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Feb 8 2011, 10:47 PM
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#12
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Mardrax, it's not about being immune to aging. It's about being immune to there being no magic in the world.
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Feb 8 2011, 11:14 PM
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#13
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Feb 8 2011, 05:37 PM) If by sparkle you mean they slowly burn, yeah, they sparkle in the sunlight. If by "slowly burn" you mean "cast Alleviate Immunity," then yeah. |
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Feb 8 2011, 11:35 PM
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#14
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Why would you alleviate an immunity, silly? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It *is* a mistake to make that an allergy, sigh. Oh well. |
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Feb 8 2011, 11:40 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,083 Joined: 13-December 10 From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Member No.: 19,228 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 8 2011, 11:47 PM) Mardrax, it's not about being immune to aging. It's about being immune to there being no magic in the world. Does a vampire die when exposed to a lack of ambient mana? If so, the 5th world's lack of mana should kill all of them, regardless of being 'spike babies'. Also if so, a vampire would not survive a trip to Zurich Orbital. RAW mentions no such thing that I'm aware of. Can an attribute-only test be made if one of the attributes involved equals 0? If so, Essence Drain would work fine without a Magic attribute. Otherwise, all vampires would die of malnourishment in under 13 months. Again, RAW mentions no such thing that I'm aware of. I'd love to be educated on both points though. |
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Feb 8 2011, 11:58 PM
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#16
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I don't know. That's the whole question of the thread, Mardrax. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It is, however, 100% not about immunity to aging.
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Feb 9 2011, 01:11 AM
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#17
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 8 2011, 06:35 PM) Why would you alleviate an immunity, silly? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Derp. My fingers type silly things sometimes. I meant Alleviate Allergy. |
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Feb 9 2011, 01:24 AM
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#18
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Feb 8 2011, 05:21 PM) Well once you get into the territory of the novels, a number of the "spike babies" were immortal elves, and the immortal elves had turned into immortal humans during the low period. Immortal elves remain elves. They just wore headbands, like Spock in The Voyage Home. (They also used illusion spells, magic is harder in the down cycle but not impossible) Elves don't goblinize. They're only born elves. They can't change into humans, either. The children of IEs from around that time were human, however, and perfectly mortal. Spike babies are babies who have Elf metagenes and were exposed to mana spikes in eutero, causing those elf genes to express. Mana is required to activate them, but once activated they remain active forever. The same is true with vampires. The infection requires mana, but once the infection changes the host those changes are permanent. And yes, a vampire can survive in the downcycle. The novels are canon, even the insane ones that violate the rule and make no sense. Hence the Ex-Vampire Otaku Gangster Empress of Japan. |
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Feb 9 2011, 02:07 AM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,989 Joined: 28-July 09 From: Somewhere along the brazilian coast Member No.: 17,437 |
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 8 2011, 08:14 PM) If by "slowly burn" you mean "cast Alleviate Immunity," then yeah. Yeah... Using Magic to simply ignore such a prime characteristic of a species doesn't fly in my games. But that is just in my games... |
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Feb 9 2011, 02:21 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 16-March 05 From: 51° 16' North 7° 11' East Member No.: 7,168 |
"In nomine Patris et Filii.."
*waving around a sprinkler* "Hey, I don't care about holy water!" *drawing a Zippo* "Who says it's water?" |
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Feb 9 2011, 03:23 AM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,182 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Feb 8 2011, 08:24 PM) The novels are canon, even the insane ones that violate the rule and make no sense. Hence the Ex-Vampire Otaku Gangster Empress of Japan. Wait, what? |
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Feb 9 2011, 03:57 AM
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#22
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Except, hyzmarca, a lot of the vampire powers are… powers. I think that's why there's a question.
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Feb 9 2011, 04:16 AM
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#23
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Feb 8 2011, 10:23 PM) Wait, what? A long time ago daddy Shiawase decided that the best way to test his HMHVV cure was to put his one and only rebellious daughter in the same room as a hungry vampire. It worked. He's been keeping it under wraps for some inexplicable reason ever since. Hitomi also founded a gang when she was at MIT, was transformed into an Otaku by Mirage, and recently married the Emperor of Japan. |
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Feb 9 2011, 04:25 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,182 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
I hate to be That Guy, but references for this?
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Feb 9 2011, 04:31 AM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Feb 8 2011, 05:40 PM) Can an attribute-only test be made if one of the attributes involved equals 0? QUOTE (SR4A, page 294, Essence Drain, 3rd paragraph, 3rd sentence) The critter may drain as many points of Essence as it currently possesses, with a minimum of 1 point.
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