Ancient elves, slumbering dragons... vampires? Options

[Draco18s]

Yeah... Using Magic to simply ignore such a prime characteristic of a species doesn't fly in my games.
But that is just in my games...

Your games aren't RAW. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
But yes. It's absolutely silly, and when I realized it I was like, "OH SHIT, SHADOWRUN HAS SPARKLY VAMPIRES, DO NOT WANT D:"

[Fortinbras]

Until someone really clever casts mana static and the sparkle turns to burn.

[Drace]

I hate to be That Guy, but references for this?

The Vampire/HMHVV cure and Mirage Otaku parts are from the novel Psychotrope. Not sure about the gang in MIT&T thought.

And marrying the emperor of Japan has been mentioned in nearly any reference to shiawase or Japan for all of 4th edition. Think it happened just after the crash, don't have my books on me at the moment.

[Mäx]

And marrying the emperor of Japan has been mentioned in nearly any reference to shiawase or Japan for all of 4th edition. Think it happened just after the crash, don't have my books on me at the moment.

It happened sometime before second of april 2064, mentioned as a resent happening in Shadows of Asia and thats the dating of the Japan post in there.

[Drace]

Just before crash then, whoops.

[ravensmuse]

Ahaha, and I thought the Secrets of Power books were bad enough, but Psychotrope sounds terrible.

And yet I love it.

[Draco18s]

Until someone really clever casts mana static and the sparkle turns to burn.

Well yeah.

[Medicineman]

So possibly if the vamp was created / infected during a spike, and then went dormant, they could have survived? But not if they tried to remain active throughout all that period.

Is that an accurate assessment?

Confirmative
either Dormant all the way from 4th Age --->6th
or (if at all) while created under a Manaspike they should remain dormant too until the return of Magic in 2011.
the only ones active in the 5th Age were the Handfull of Immortal Elves

Is HMHVV the same as it was milennia ago?

HMHVV came into existence only since 2011
so there was no HMHVV (and thus no Ghouls,Vampires,Dzoo-no-Qua,etc) a Millenium ago

with an immortal Dance
Medicineman

[Mardrax]

Neraph, the quote you posted bears no relation to the question wether a vampire can use his Drain Essence power, which takes a dicepool of Charisma + Magic, while Magic is 0. In other words: can an attribute only test be made when one of the attributes equals 0?

[Mardrax]

Confirmative
either Dormant all the way from 4th Age --->6th
or (if at all) while created under a Manaspike they should remain dormant too until the return of Magic in 2011.
the only ones active in the 5th Age were the Handfull of Immortal Elves

with an immortal Dance
Medicineman

A reference for this?
If there is a canon reference to this, is there any rule in SR4 to back it up?

[Semerkhet]

I'm still trying to get my head around this. There are vampires in Shadowrun? Whose brilliant idea was that? There's a game for those, you know.

Next thing you'll be telling me there are werewolves in Shadowrun.

[Medicineman]

a Reference for what ?
Immortal Elves ?
they've been around since SR2 (to promote the connection between Earthdawn and SR)
or Dormancy ?
Well the 5th Age had no Magic
and so there couldn't exist anything magical
The first official Manaspikes where from the Beginning of the 20th Century.The first official Spike Baby was the Irish elf that changed Ireland to Tir Na Nog.
So IF you presume that there was this Manaspile and that it caused spontanious HMHVV and that it
transformed someone to a Vampire (without a Carrier....Its like the Alien Eggs in Alien III ; they existed with no real explanation.... ?!? )He couldn't survive without Magic....so there is no other Way except Dormancy

HokaHey
Medicineman

[Draco18s]

I'm still trying to get my head around this. There are vampires in Shadowrun? Whose brilliant idea was that? There's a game for those, you know.

Yes there are. They're not-undead essence drained humans. With a nasty virus.

Next thing you'll be telling me there are werewolves in Shadowrun.

There are wolf-shapeshifters (more akin to kitsune). But not werewolves in the "full moon" sense.

[Medicineman]

I'm still trying to get my head around this. There are vampires in Shadowrun? Whose brilliant idea was that? There's a game for those, you know.

Next thing you'll be telling me there are werewolves in Shadowrun.

The SR Vampires are neither WoD Vampires and they shure don't sparkle in the Sun !
They're Victims of a Virus (just like Ghouls,Wndigos, etc)

And Yes We do have Shapeshifters !
Animals(Bears,Wolves,Eagle,Tiger etc.....Predators) that can change into Human Form
Go get yourself the Runners Compendium
(Me personally I liked Vampires in Chrome, but I don't like the Idea of Shadowrun of Darkness
but thats for a totally new Thread )

He who dances in Darkness and in the Shadows
Medicineman

[Semerkhet]

Go get yourself the Runners Compendium
(Me personally I liked Vampires in Chrome, but I don't like the Idea of Shadowrun of Darkness
but thats for a totally new Thread )

You and Draco18s need to get your snark meters re-calibrated. I'm joking, I really am.


I know I'm not contributing constructively to the topic at hand; I just couldn't resist the opportunity to snark at totally unnecessary and beside-the-point character types in SR. After twenty years of running SR without vampires or shapeshifters I can say with confidence that we are not yet running out of interesting character concepts. That said, I had a great time running and playing oWoD games but when I want my magical-cyberpunk I set aside the fangs and fur. YMMV, obviously.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
*added to prevent anyone from concluding that I am being deadly serious and pronouncing them to be having "wrong bad fun."

[Draco18s]

The SR Vampires are neither WoD Vampires and they shure don't sparkle in the Sun !

They do if they cast spells. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
(Because all spells sparkle in SR4)

After twenty years of running SR without vampires or shapeshifters I can say with confidence that we are not yet running out of interesting character concepts. That said, I had a great time running and playing oWoD games but when I want my magical-cyberpunk I set aside the fangs and fur. YMMV, obviously.

I like my shadows with scales, but that just might be some kind of speciest preference on my part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[darthmord]

Neraph, the quote you posted bears no relation to the question wether a vampire can use his Drain Essence power, which takes a dicepool of Charisma + Magic, while Magic is 0. In other words: can an attribute only test be made when one of the attributes equals 0?

You are presuming that Magic attributes are equal to 0 during the downcycle. Much of the SR literature implies that Magic is merely very difficult to perform during the down cycle. This being due to the **LACK** of Mana. You'll find this sort of info in the older editions (SR1 & SR2).

But then again, I've never gotten a solid answer as to whether the downcycle is a mana void (and thus a penalty applied to the Magic attribute) or simply an utter lack of mana for purposes of determining how that effect works.

[Sephiroth]

Well the 5th Age had no Magic
and so there couldn't exist anything magical
The first official Manaspikes where from the Beginning of the 20th Century.The first official Spike Baby was the Irish elf that changed Ireland to Tir Na Nog.
So IF you presume that there was this Manaspile and that it caused spontanious HMHVV and that it
transformed someone to a Vampire (without a Carrier....Its like the Alien Eggs in Alien III ; they existed with no real explanation.... ?!? )He couldn't survive without Magic....so there is no other Way except Dormancy

HokaHey
Medicineman

This is false. As I have already mentioned, the elven nosferatu Luther was a spike baby born at the end of the 18th century. I also strongly suspect that he was already a nosferatu before the Awakening, but I haven't found any confirmation of that yet.

Also, let's look at this in a broader context. If HMHVV absolutely did not exist before the Awakening, then where do all the vampire myths and legends come from? There had to have been at least a few Infected during the 5th World to start the legends in the first place.

[Semerkhet]

I like my shadows with scales, but that just might be some kind of speciest preference on my part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

In yet more derailment I'll agree with you. Lofwyr is the quintessential symbol of the fantasy/cyberpunk fusion. Is there anything more obvious and appropriate than a dragon waking up in the modern world and using his hoard of riches to maneuver himself to a position as a despotic puppet master in charge of the world's largest megacorporation.

Note also that "Great Dragon" is not a character generation option. I could perhaps accept shapeshifters and vampires in Shadowrun if they stayed Critters. Its the Runners Companion that offends me most. I felt the exact same way when "Werewolf: The Apocalypse" published a Player's Guide that essentially made the game into "Any Old Shapeshifter: The Confusion."

[Medicineman]

You and Draco18s need to get your snark meters re-calibrated. I'm joking, I really am.
I can't see your face so I take all your Posts serious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Its a kind of courtesy

I like my shadows with scales,

And I like mine with big,hairy Feet

This is false. As I have already mentioned, the elven nosferatu Luther was a spike baby born at the end of the 18th century.

thats from a Novel ,right ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
My Informations are from the Game itself(like 6th World Almanach)

If HMHVV absolutely did not exist before the Awakening, then where do all the vampire myths and legends come from?
Counterquestion (is that the right word ?)
Dragons were sleeping throughout the 5th World ,right ?
where did all the Legends from Dragons come from ?
AND I only know of vampire Legends in my/our/the Real world. I don't know of any Vampire Legends in the SR-World


with a Dance in the Shires
Medicineman

[Draco18s]

Note also that "Great Dragon" is not a character generation option.

Drakes, dude. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Also:
I'll agree that RC did some wacky shit, and isn't very well balanced, but in other ways I like the book.

[Sephiroth]

thats from a Novel ,right ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
My Informations are from the Game itself(like 6th World Almanach)

If HMHVV absolutely did not exist before the Awakening, then where do all the vampire myths and legends come from?
Counterquestion (is that the right word ?)
Dragons were sleeping throughout the 5th World ,right ?
where did all the Legends from Dragons come from ?
AND I only know of vampire Legends in my/our/the Real world. I don't know of any Vampire Legends in the SR-World


with a Dance in the Shires
Medicineman

That is correct, it is from the novel Nosferatu.
Dragon legends are a bit easier to explain, because it is canon that some of the IE's hunted down dragons and great dragons during the downcycle. The Elves' ability to do magic was very limited compared to their usual power level, so it is not unreasonable to guess that they would have used their less-magical skill at spinning intrigue to convince some ignorant human 'dragonslayers' to assist them in finding and killing the dragons. No doubt the tales those human dragonslayers would spread of their experiences afterward would make more humans believe in dragons as terrible beasts that kill livestock and kidnap damsels for the evulz (DISCLAIMER), which would make recruiting future help much easier for the immortal elves.

And the real world and the Shadowrun world are one and the same from the beginning of the 5th world until 1991. So any vampire myths and legends in our world are also in the Shadowrun world.

EDIT: Also, stories of dragons were already around after their presence and actions in the 4th world.

[Medicineman]

And the real world and the Shadowrun world are one and the same from the beginning of the 5th world until 1991. So any vampire myths and legends in our world are also in the Shadowrun world.

Ok (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
thats a good Point

HokaHey
Medicineman

[Fortinbras]

I'm still trying to get my head around this. There are vampires in Shadowrun? Whose brilliant idea was that? There's a game for those, you know.

Next thing you'll be telling me there are werewolves in Shadowrun.

Not only do they exist, they are in your base book.

[hyzmarca]

And the real world and the Shadowrun world are one and the same from the beginning of the 5th world until 1991. So any vampire myths and legends in our world are also in the Shadowrun world.

1986, that's when Burger retired in real life.