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> My bored creation, Since I think all the SR fighters suck
InfinityzeN
post Feb 13 2011, 09:34 PM
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*** EDIT: This is an updated version since lots of people were screaming. If you want the original just ask since I still have it. The payload being too high was correct though so I cut it down. ***

So I got bored today and was looking over all the fighters in SR4 (SR4A, Arsenal, War, MilSpecTech). Most of the fighters in all of them suck, since they are seriously lacking in several things that even modern fighters have. So I threw together a fighter that I felt is actually only slightly more advanced in capabilities then the current F22 Raptor.

Lockheed-Martin YF36 Rapier
The Rapier is current lead prototype to become the UCAS's workhorse attack fighter. The requirements for the fighter exceptionally high, with the L-M YF36 being the only aircraft entered into the competition. They include Mach 2.5+ super cruise (2.65 achieved), Mach 3+ after burner (3.32 achieved), 4,000km range with 6 hour lotter time (achieved with axillary fuel tank), vertical takeoff and landing, full stealth capabilities, and extensive weapon payload. The speed of the craft comes about from its highly experimental engine. Although there has been no cases of failure to date, the entire craft is still in the prototype stage and problems are sure to happen.

The Rapier utilizes a flying wing design with all of its weapon systems internally mounted to improve its stealth profile and extensive vectored thrusters to enhance its maneuver and VTOL capability. This closed profile design greatly increases its internal volume, allowing for it to mount its extensive systems. For weapon systems, the fighter mounts a GE Vanquisher Autocannon, an internal missile bays with four missiles, and two multi-drone racks. The fighter primarily uses its extensive drone missiles, with its heavier missiles used to engage other fighter aircraft.

Std. Upgrades: Ejection Seat, Rigger Adaptation, Enhanced Rigger Cocoon, Improved Takeoff and Landing (Rtg. 2), Reduced Signature (Rtg. 6), ECM 10, 2x Lock-On Countermeasures, Chameleon Coating, 2x Weapon Mounts (Internal, Fixed, Remote), 5x Ammo Bin (1x Cannon, x4 Missile), 2x Multi-Launch Drone Rack, Additional Fuel Tank, Unstable Structural Agility, Life Support 2, Computer System

The fighter is an advanced prototype and cannot accept additional modifications.

Lockheed-Martin YF36 Rapier
HAND ACCEL SPEED PILOT BODY ARM SEN AVIL COST
+5 70/360 2400 6 22 16 4 48F $32,500,000

Std. Armaments: GE Vanquisher Heavy Autocannon * (500x AV Ammo), Missile Bay (5x Missiles), 2x Multi-Launch Drone Rack (20x Ares Heimdall)

Computer
[ Spoiler ]


* Has Laser Designator (Rtg. 6), Microwave Designator (Rtg. 6), Radar Designator (Rtg. 6)
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 14 2011, 05:06 PM
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I like it... Consider it Yoinked... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)
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Neraph
post Feb 14 2011, 06:26 PM
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Agreed. This is what I'd expect to see from a freaking military in the 6th world, not something that you can replicate with a mod'd Piper Brat for less than half the cost.

EDIT: I especially like the multi-Heimdalls.
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Feb 14 2011, 06:43 PM
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Nice, can we steal borrow it for our alt.War! project?
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Doc Chase
post Feb 14 2011, 06:58 PM
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Seems like it'd be more like a bomber than a fighter with that kind of design.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 14 2011, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Feb 14 2011, 11:58 AM) *
Seems like it'd be more like a bomber than a fighter with that kind of design.


Multi-Role Platform... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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CanRay
post Feb 14 2011, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Feb 14 2011, 03:24 PM) *
Multi-Role Platform... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

"Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein
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Doc Chase
post Feb 14 2011, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Feb 14 2011, 07:24 PM) *
Multi-Role Platform... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)


Which is great and wonderful until that thing tries a high-G turn in a dogfight. An F-15 is a multirole fighter. A B-2 is not.

Edit: And looking at it, 'changing the loadout' just involves swapping one missile pod for the other. The drone racks and Heimdalls are nice, but these requirements seem odd for the type of world it's being developed for. Why would the UCAS need an 8,000 mile range when they don't have the power projection the old U.S. required? Why does this thing need VTOL capability? Where is it storing its fuel with all those munitions bays? Why not pop in a Firelance instead of an autocannon with that kind of tracking software?

Perhaps it's just me having a hard time believing we can fit all that into a 'fighter' airframe that's akin to a -117 or a B-2, even at Shadowrun-level tech.
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Adarael
post Feb 14 2011, 08:45 PM
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This thing seriously has *56* missiles, and 40 rockets!? This isn't a multi-role anything, this is a B-1 Lancer that's had the bomb bay replaced with OMG MOAR MISSILES. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like it, but the F35 can carry *8* missiles, and the F-18 can carry *9* missiles, and shit, the A-10 only carries *11* missiles. Seriously, 1 multi-role drone rack carries 10 Heimdalls? Isn't each heimdall the lenght of a motorcycle, basically?

I would strongly suggest reducing the ammo capacity of this thing.
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Doc Chase
post Feb 14 2011, 08:47 PM
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That's what I mean. It's carrying a bomber-level payload with an air superiority fighter's handling.
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CanRay
post Feb 14 2011, 08:52 PM
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"Sir, the good news, we missed that Heat Seeker." "The bad news?" "That groaning sound? That was the missile pylons on the port wing sheering off. The ground crew overloaded us as you told them." "Idiots. The book was written by some Air Force REMF at the Pentagon that never was *IN* a Fighter!"
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sabs
post Feb 14 2011, 09:00 PM
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By official RAW A Multi-Rack would only be able to hold 1 Heimdal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, why does this thing not have a rigger cocoon? It has more body than a DocWagon CRT helicopter, or a Federated Boeing Eagle C? REALLY?

It has a better computer system than the Zurich Orbital Ground station? God I hate War's stupid scale changes.

Here's the stats for the FB Eagle C which is a Fighter Bomber
+2 60/240 1200 3 20 12 3 26F 10,000,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
std Upgrades:
Improved VTOL 1, Personal Armor 5, Weapon Mount, Ejection Seats, ECM4, ECCM4

I'm all for a new cutting edge stealth fighter/bomber, but lets not make something that's completely out of scale.


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Doc Chase
post Feb 14 2011, 09:02 PM
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Re: ZOG Station: Theirs goes to 11. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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sabs
post Feb 14 2011, 09:06 PM
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The one in Unwired goes to 8 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Doc Chase
post Feb 14 2011, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 14 2011, 10:06 PM) *
The one in Unwired goes to 8 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


So then by War! statistics, this one would go to 14. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The trouble with the book is that it invalidated a lot of the previous ratings. We want this stuff to remain at the top of the heap, but they statted it. They would've been better off leaving it as "If you have to ask, you're already dead."

But since it's statted, we may as well upgrade those shit-hot systems we aren't supposed to get into in order to reflect the power creep.
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CanRay
post Feb 14 2011, 09:14 PM
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The more I hear about this book, the more I'm thinking I might never read it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Too bad. I hope for better things in the future.

Now, back to whining about the Uber-Fighter F5000.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 14 2011, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 14 2011, 02:00 PM) *
By official RAW A Multi-Rack would only be able to hold 1 Heimdal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Actually, No, a Heimdall is a Mini-Drone, and the Drone Rack holds ten of them... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)
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sabs
post Feb 14 2011, 09:28 PM
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You are correct, I had forgotten the Heimdall was a minidrone.
So, it can hold 10. With a 5 modification slot you could put 2 pretty easily in that 22 body. But thats still a far cry from 40.
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CanRay
post Feb 14 2011, 09:32 PM
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Again, the idea of "Body = Size" comes to be an issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

"Body = Toughness" would be better... With a statement of what size it really is. But, you know, that's hindsight and all that. Or perhaps not...
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Doc Chase
post Feb 14 2011, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Feb 14 2011, 10:32 PM) *
"Body = Toughness" would be better... With a statement of what size it really is. But, you know, that's hindsight and all that. Or perhaps not...


Workable, but toughness adds weight, weight requires more thrust, which requires more fuel, which generates more heat - and increases your signature. With the acceleration and top speed profiles on this thing it becomes clear that MCD has created Phlebotinum plating that negates the weight of the airframe in regards to thrust and carrying capacity.
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Mardrax
post Feb 14 2011, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 14 2011, 10:28 PM) *
You are correct, I had forgotten the Heimdall was a minidrone.
So, it can hold 10. With a 5 modification slot you could put 2 pretty easily in that 22 body. But thats still a far cry from 40.


Modification slots bear no meaning for a stock vehicle. They're on top of what's provided.

QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Feb 14 2011, 10:36 PM) *
With the acceleration and top speed profiles on this thing it becomes clear that MCD has created Phlebotinum plating that negates the weight of the airframe in regards to thrust and carrying capacity.

It must be made of Freeze Foam.
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InfinityzeN
post Feb 14 2011, 11:03 PM
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Since everyone seems to be ZOMG! over the number of missiles this thing carries, your missing one very important part of those missiles. They are all man portable size. In fact, the 8 shot missile pack is a single man portable system. This thing does not have any of the heavy missiles that people were listing in what is currently carried. Even the Heimdall is not big, since it is the exact same size as other man portable missiles that can be shot from multi-missile man portable platforms. In fact, the Mitsubishi Yakusok MRL can actually have 8 Heimdall loaded into it.

If you don't like it, don't use it. Think it has two many weapons? Take only 1 pod and 2 drone racks. Most of the other things I added are things an advanced fighter should have.

ECM 10, ECCM 10, Jammer 6, and Lock-On Countermeasures are all things every fighter should have since the cost of them in unnoticeable compared to the cost of the plane. In fact, you should have multiple Lock-On Countermeasures since they are only 6 uses each. (We're talking less than $30,000 with multiple L-O CM)

Reduced Signature (Rtg. 6) and Chameleon Coating are things that every stealth fighter should have since their cost is again unnoticeable compared to the cost of the plane.

Three or four Weapon Mounts (Internal/External, Fixed, Remote) are the current standard for an SR4 fighter, with Ammo Bin being a very cheap addition. For internal missile bays, that is 1 mod slot and $1k per additional missile. I'm talking about the actual large ones, which my above design has none of.

Improved Sensors, Fuzzy Logic, and Satellite Communication are all things that modern fighters all have. Increasing the Pilot program to max ($6k) should be a given on a multi million dollar aircraft.

Multi-Launch Drone Rack are a great buy since the Heimdall is a great missile

Additional Fuel Tank is very common in fighter aircraft today (the Improved Economy however is being a little overboard)

Unstable Structural Agility was used because... there are no fighters with it in SR4 while almost every modern fighter today has it! *GASP*

The crazy rating Commlink is because hacking a vehicle is stupid easy in SR4 *GASP* so you want the best defense against it you can get.


Now that I'm thinking on it, I'm going to update the design by dropping the Mitsubishi Yakusok MRL and Fleche Hail Barrage Rocket Launcher from it, sticking an actual full size missile bay in there (AIM-27 Sparrow Hawk), with 3~4 missiles.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 14 2011, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ Feb 14 2011, 04:03 PM) *
Since everyone seems to be ZOMG! over the number of missiles this thing carries, your missing one very important part of those missiles. They are all man portable size. In fact, the 8 shot missile pack is a single man portable system. This thing does not have any of the heavy missiles that people were listing in what is currently carried. Even the Heimdall is not big, since it is the exact same size as other man portable missiles that can be shot from multi-missile man portable platforms. In fact, the Mitsubishi Yakusok MRL can actually have 8 Heimdall loaded into it.

...

Now that I'm thinking on it, I'm going to update the design by dropping the Mitsubishi Yakusok MRL and Fleche Hail Barrage Rocket Launcher from it, sticking an actual full size missile bay in there (AIM-27 Sparrow Hawk), with 3~4 missiles.


Hey, That works too... In fact, I would just keep the Fleche Hail Systems (2 or so) and use The Heimdall in those (with an additional Ammo Bin Each, for a total of 40 Heimdalls per Launcher), as they will work...

Remove the Drone Racks and replace with 2-3 Real Missile Launchers with Additional Ammo Bins for those (Say 4 or so each for a total of 5 Missiles per Launcher - I love Rotary, Missile deployment, systems, at least visually anyways)...
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InfinityzeN
post Feb 14 2011, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Feb 14 2011, 06:10 PM) *
Hey, That works too... In fact, I would just keep the Fleche Hail Systems (2 or so) and use The Heimdall in those (with an additional Ammo Bin Each, for a total of 40 Heimdalls per Launcher), as they will work...

Remove the Drone Racks and replace with 2-3 Real Missile Launchers with Additional Ammo Bins for those (Say 4 or so each for a total of 5 Missiles per Launcher - I love Rotary, Missile deployment, systems, at least visually anyways)...


Good idea there. Although I like the Drone Racks since they can have actual drones other than the Heimdall loaded into them. I cut it down to two Multi-Drone Racks, the Cannon, and a 5-slot internal bay.

Also, I have started a community project for building war aircraft. Clicky here or in my sig to get there.
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sabs
post Feb 15 2011, 12:19 AM
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Just because the standard upgrades don't cost mods doesn't mean you should stick in there 3 times the # of mods possible without it costing anything. Have you really not heard of game balance at all?
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