Techno-Shifters, this is clearly wrong... |
Techno-Shifters, this is clearly wrong... |
Feb 15 2011, 04:14 PM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 25-July 10 Member No.: 18,851 |
QUOTE (Core 4a @ Pg 93) Technomancer Cost: 5 BP Technomancers can access and manipulate the Matrix through their own sheer force of will (see Technomancers, p. 239). Known as otaku prior to the Crash of 2064, technomancers have emerged among all walks of life since the advent of augmented reality. A character must purchase this quality in order to be a technomancer and will start with a Resonance attribute of 1. This may be increased like any other attribute, up to a maximum of 6 (see Purchase Attributes, p. 83). A character with this quality cannot take the Adept, Magician, or Mystic Adept qualities. Technomancers have a living persona—their Matrix alter ego— with its own separate set of attributes that govern virtual actions in the Matrix. The Resonance attribute, combined with certain other attributes, determines how strong (or weak) the persona is. So... Shifters/Vampires/etc are legal? Huh, first rumours of Techno-pets and now TECHNO-DRAGON! The world will never be the same. Ok, yes, this is insane, and no doubt errata'd/explained more clearly elsewhere, but the Trait description and the Technomancer section both say nothing about having a Magic score preventing entry. It could almost, almost make sense if they made a decision on if Resonance was/was not a breed of Magic. But yeah, there it is. Point me to the rules banning this and put my mind at rest, so I can continue choose between a Shifter-rigger or Dronomancer build for my crazy single-drone assassin living in a bunker under the desert, with a 'body' in each major city of the world. Because if this is legal...I can take my cake, and not just simply eat it, but gnaw onwards through the bake-ways of the planet until all the cakiness in the world cowers beneath my icing-smeared grasp. Sorry, overtired and m'thoughts are going a little crazy; that was supposed to say 'The last thing preventing total Technomancer dominance is gone.' |
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Feb 15 2011, 04:20 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589 |
So... Shifters/Vampires/etc are legal? Huh, first rumours of Techno-pets and now TECHNO-DRAGON! The world will never be the same. Ok, yes, this is insane, and no doubt errata'd/explained more clearly elsewhere, but the Trait description and the Technomancer section both say nothing about having a Magic score preventing entry. It could almost, almost make sense if they made a decision on if Resonance was/was not a breed of Magic. But yeah, there it is. Point me to the rules banning this and put my mind at rest, so I can continue choose between a Shifter-rigger or Dronomancer build for my crazy single-drone assassin living in a bunker under the desert, with a 'body' in each major city of the world. Because if this is legal...I can take my cake, and not just simply eat it, but gnaw onwards through the bake-ways of the planet until all the cakiness in the world cowers beneath my icing-smeared grasp. Sorry, overtired and m'thoughts are going a little crazy; that was supposed to say 'The last thing preventing total Technomancer dominance is gone.' Runner's Companion p.88 Qualities Shapeshifters can take every quality they qualify for except those that grant Resonance. EDIT: Dragon April Fools PC rules state there are no known dracoform technomancers RC p. 76 says Drakes can't be TMs. p. 79 says Infected can't either. Nor can AIs(p.89) or Free Spirits(p.93) It isn't strictly forbidden for critters, but the Uneducated Quality is going to make it difficult. |
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Feb 15 2011, 04:25 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,373 Joined: 14-January 10 From: Stuttgart, Germany Member No.: 18,036 |
and for Drakes:
RC p76 Characters with any of the Infected qualities, any quality that grants Resonance, and non-metahuman characters may not take this quality. The Drake quality is also incompatible with the Latent Dracomorphosis quality. |
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Feb 15 2011, 04:31 PM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
and for Drakes: RC p76 Characters with any of the Infected qualities, any quality that grants Resonance, and non-metahuman characters may not take this quality. The Drake quality is also incompatible with the Latent Dracomorphosis quality. That's for drakes, not shifters. How about: QUOTE (SR4A, page 68, Magic) Magic and Resonance are mutually exclusive attributes. A character that possesses a quality that grants a Magic of 1 or higher cannot have a Resonance attribute. And: QUOTE (SR4A, page 68, Resonance) Resonance and Magic are mutually exclusive attributes. A character that possesses a quality that grants a Resonance of 1 or higher cannot have a Magic attribute.
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Feb 15 2011, 04:41 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589 |
We not only had to kill this thought, but salt the earth so nothing would grow again.
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Feb 15 2011, 04:53 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 25-July 10 Member No.: 18,851 |
Oh thank god. I'm already wondering if Technomacer brain-hacking is really that far off, considering the potential of unlimited-service Resonancex2 Sprites.
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Feb 15 2011, 04:57 PM
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#7
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I think the rules support a view that these are incompatible backward and forward through time, even: if you ever had a Magic rating, you can never have Resonance, and vice versa.
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Feb 15 2011, 04:58 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589 |
Oh thank god. I'm already wondering if Technomacer brain-hacking is really that far off, considering the potential of unlimited-service Resonancex2 Sprites. There already is brain hacking. It's called Manipulation spells. And who is this GM giving you unlimited service sprites? We need to go have a talk outside. |
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Feb 15 2011, 04:59 PM
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#9
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
Oh thank god. I'm already wondering if Technomacer brain-hacking is really that far off, considering the potential of unlimited-service Resonancex2 Sprites. Brain-hacking ruins ShadowRun. Simply because "hacking that guy's cyber" turns from the "worst idea to do in combat ever" into "the best idea to do in combat ever." Because you can hack anyone, regardless of cyber, including the mage, and turn them into a meat puppet. Without the requisite "stirrup" hardware. And you can make the mage cast spells. |
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Feb 15 2011, 07:32 PM
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#10
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Does Brain-Hacking mean an AI can possess Magical active people?
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Feb 15 2011, 07:59 PM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
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Feb 15 2011, 08:06 PM
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#12
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Yeah, i tried that once . . i freely admit that i do not understand these rules all that much i'm afraid ^^#
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Feb 15 2011, 08:57 PM
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#13
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
I think the rules support a view that these are incompatible backward and forward through time, even: if you ever had a Magic rating, you can never have Resonance, and vice versa. Check Running Wild, page 205. QUOTE Magic and Resonance As mentioned in Shadowrun, Fourth Edition, Magic and Resonance are mutually exclusive. A critter cannot have both abilities, and the corollary ability is prohibited once a specific ability has been expressed. This means that a critter which is normally Paranormal cannot become an Emergent critter even if its Magic is reduced to 0. Likewise, an adept who burns out her magic ability cannot become a technomancer. So if you've ever expressed on one side (such as for critters, sapient or otherwise, or metahumans), you can never express the other side. |
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Feb 15 2011, 10:05 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,083 Joined: 13-December 10 From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Member No.: 19,228 |
Clear.
So what happens when a Technomancer gets hit with the "let me bite my lip, then spit you in the mouth and open wounds" attack some feral ghoul might unleash on him? Another interesting possibility: what happens if you'd give a sapient critter any ammount of deltaware gene therapy while in utero, thereby preventing it from ever being born with Magic? |
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Feb 15 2011, 10:08 PM
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#15
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
First case he loses his technomantic abilities.
second case, it's still born. |
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Feb 15 2011, 10:57 PM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,782 Joined: 28-August 09 Member No.: 17,566 |
Its worth noting that these rules CAN be used to make techno-critters, just by a very roundabout, loopholey method.
Remember the pixie-tm threads? Burnout a your magic, THEN emerge. And yes, its quite silly. |
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Feb 15 2011, 11:04 PM
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#17
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
And you lose the best things about a pixie.
free flight and concealment. |
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Feb 15 2011, 11:04 PM
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#18
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
Its worth noting that these rules CAN be used to make techno-critters, just by a very roundabout, loopholey method. Remember the pixie-tm threads? Burnout a your magic, THEN emerge. And yes, its quite silly. Check Running Wild, page 205. QUOTE Magic and Resonance As mentioned in Shadowrun, Fourth Edition, Magic and Resonance are mutually exclusive. A critter cannot have both abilities, and the corollary ability is prohibited once a specific ability has been expressed. This means that a critter which is normally Paranormal cannot become an Emergent critter even if its Magic is reduced to 0. Likewise, an adept who burns out her magic ability cannot become a technomancer. So if you've ever expressed on one side (such as for critters, sapient or otherwise, or metahumans), you can never express the other side. |
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Feb 15 2011, 11:16 PM
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#19
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Its worth noting that these rules CAN be used to make techno-critters, just by a very roundabout, loopholey method. Remember the pixie-tm threads? Burnout a your magic, THEN emerge. And yes, its quite silly. Udoshi--As Draco pointed out with my quote, that loophole was specifically closed in Running Wild. It would be possible to discuss with your GM having a Pixie who never was born with Magic, and instead came with Resonance. This would lose all of the Paranormal critter abilities, and possibly be substituted with Emergent powers. But then, you're playing a 12-18" tall critter who resembles a pixie in form but not function. |
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Feb 15 2011, 11:19 PM
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#20
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Just WHY they felt the need to close that so called loop hole is beyond me . . it was allready impossible to combinertron magic and emergence due to needing the burnout before the emergence . .
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Feb 15 2011, 11:23 PM
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#21
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
That whole page was the end result of several discussions and unanswered questions amongst freelancers and fans. It was meant to provide clarity where the answer had been a little foggy before.
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Feb 15 2011, 11:27 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,083 Joined: 13-December 10 From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Member No.: 19,228 |
Indeed it was, hence my question about TMs and Ghouls.
My question about in utero (or even in vitro, for Gene Therapy) ware is aimed at the same thing as well, of course. Though more along a philosophical bent. If the fetus is not a separate living entity, it has no attributes of its own, and thus is born without Magic, if it's augmented before birth. Would this make a TM critter possible? Also: And you lose the best things about a pixie. free flight and concealment. Is a Pixie's flight actually described as magic? It has wings. (ridiculously small as any flying humanoid's wings are bound to be) Other than that, it's a normal, independant mode of movement, with a separate Physical Active skill to use it better. |
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Feb 15 2011, 11:30 PM
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#23
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
It's as magical as a dragons flight.
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Feb 15 2011, 11:33 PM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,351 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Behind the shadows of the Resonance Member No.: 17,653 |
I think the rules support a view that these are incompatible backward and forward through time, even: if you ever had a Magic rating, you can never have Resonance, and vice versa. There's two catches at least:QUOTE (RC, page 79) A character with any Infected quality cannot take any quality that grants Resonance (and loses them if he previously possessed them). And to help answer Mardrax's question:QUOTE (RC, page 83) ... The character loses all Resonance and technomancer abilities and gains the Infected (Ghoul) Quality and a Magic attribute of 1 (or retains his own Magic attribute, if higher). ... There are similar lines for HMHVV I and HMHVV II about Resonance and Magic as well (essentially all the same). So it is possible to Emerge as a TM at the start of your life, and then flip around to becoming a magician, but you become a bane to society in general as a side effect.
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Feb 15 2011, 11:55 PM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,782 Joined: 28-August 09 Member No.: 17,566 |
Udoshi--As Draco pointed out with my quote, that loophole was specifically closed in Running Wild. It would be possible to discuss with your GM having a Pixie who never was born with Magic, and instead came with Resonance. This would lose all of the Paranormal critter abilities, and possibly be substituted with Emergent powers. But then, you're playing a 12-18" tall critter who resembles a pixie in form but not function. Ooh! Fantastic. Score two for running wild. I like how it took that book to fix Enhanced Senses to usefulness, too. Thanks! |
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