Techno-Shifters, this is clearly wrong... Options

[Yerameyahu]

No magic means it's not a pixie.

Good point, Spellbinder: Infection specifically overrides. I was talking more 'mage burns out and decides he's a technomancer' (which is already doubly impossible because burnout gives you Magic 0, and you couldn't also get the Technomancer quality later).

[SpellBinder]

No worries there. Figured and understood that part, that path of the burnout won't let you gain extra abilities of the other side. Just helping make sure that it's known HMHVV is an exception in one direction, where a TM could potentially become a magician (and have the potential to go insane from a rather radical switch).

Which another method of crossing from technomancer to magician came to mind, and I looked into it just to make sure. Augmentation, page 57 under "Dual Nature" for being a cyberzombie. The results are pretty much the same, you loose all Resonance and technomancer abilities and have a starting Magic of 1. But then you're going to have many of the same social issues as being HMHVV infected.

[toturi]

I think there is still a way to have some magic and yet may have technomancer abilities. AFB right now, so I have to go home to make sure the Is are dotted and Ts are crossed.

[Yerameyahu]

Definitely not. If there's some error in the rules, that'd be all it would be.

[toturi]

Definitely not. If there's some error in the rules, that'd be all it would be.

I do not do errors. If I can find a way, it is RAW and that'd be all it would be. If the writers are not happy with it, then they can change it in the next printing.

[Yerameyahu]

They're called loopholes, and they're errors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Do whatever you want.

[toturi]

They're called loopholes, and they're errors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Do whatever you want.

The rules have no errors unless the writers state so. And until the writers state so, there are no loopholes.

[Yerameyahu]

They're the ones who put the errors there in the first place, so why trust them? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) The books are unequivocal, however, on the total fundamental incompatibility of Magic and Resonance. In fact, there *was* a potential loophole (as mentioned above) and they specifically closed it (again, above).

[Irion]

As a matter of fact I would let it fly without second thought.
I would only prohibit the combination of adept/mage with technomancer.

[Yerameyahu]

You can house rule literally anything you want, however completely wrong it might be. We're talking about the rules.

[Irion]

Well, the rules are quite clear on this one. No combination of magic and ressonance is allowed. Even if you burn out magic you are still unable to emerge.

[toturi]

Well, the rules are quite clear on this one. No combination of magic and ressonance is allowed. Even if you burn out magic you are still unable to emerge.

But what if you had Magic but did not burn out, could you not emerge?

They're the ones who put the errors there in the first place, so why trust them? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) The books are unequivocal, however, on the total fundamental incompatibility of Magic and Resonance. In fact, there *was* a potential loophole (as mentioned above) and they specifically closed it (again, above).

Which is why I trust them to put in more of such possible rules interactions.

[Fortinbras]

But what if you had Magic but did not burn out, could you not emerge?

If you had magic, you can't emerge. The only way to get otaku abilities and have a magic score is to be Leonardo, the Immortal Elf.

[Stahlseele]

Precedent!

[toturi]

If you had magic, you can't emerge.

Can you give me a quote that specifically addresses this?

[Fortinbras]

Bishop already did. Running Wild spells it out pretty clearly.

[toturi]

Bishop already did. Running Wild spells it out pretty clearly.

No, it did not.

Magic and Resonance
As mentioned in Shadowrun, Fourth Edition, Magic and Resonance are mutually exclusive. A critter cannot have both abilities, and the corollary ability is prohibited once a specific ability has been expressed. This means that a critter which is normally Paranormal cannot become an Emergent critter even if its Magic is reduced to 0. Likewise, an adept who burns out her magic ability cannot become a technomancer.

Even if we accept that a metahuman can be refered to a critter for the purposes of this quote, it does not address whether or not/what happens when someone who is normally Emergent gains access to Paranormal powers without gaining a Magic attribute.

[Stahlseele]

How would that work in the first place?
Well, smoking the regeneration drug, maybe endowment from a spirit . .
But still, you don't get to keep your cake and eat it too in these cases . .

[Fortinbras]

Yeah, I'm with Stahlseele on this one, in that I'm a bit confused which scenario you are referencing.

In what way is this mage losing his Magic without burning out(working under the presumption they aren't synonyms); and which critter abilities are this Technomancer gaining that do not incur a Magic attribute?

[toturi]

How would that work in the first place?
Well, smoking the regeneration drug, maybe endowment from a spirit .

Which is one of the cases what I was refering to.

In what way is this mage losing his Magic without burning out(working under the presumption they aren't synonyms); and which critter abilities are this Technomancer gaining that do not incur a Magic attribute?

The answer to your first question would be Tempo. The second Stahlsteele has already stated one case.

[Mardrax]

Isn't there a drug that gives Astral Perception as well? Or was that just for adepts? AFB atm.

[Fortinbras]

Ghost Cartels p. 60
Technomancers who take tempo benefit from the drug’s empathic enhancing abilities and are subject to its addictive effects, but never quite manage to access astral
space

p.135
A spirit cannot access Resonance through possessing a technomancer. Since technomancers are immune to the effects and addicting properties of tempo, however, this is unlikely to crop up.

If you are, however, suggesting that losing one's Magic through Tempo doesn't constitute a burn out, I might point out that a tempo addict is referred to as a burnout in GC.

[Sengir]

Precedent!

Leonardo is European, therefore he's a Civil Law elf and can't set precedents (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[toturi]

Ghost Cartels p. 60
Technomancers who take tempo benefit from the drug’s empathic enhancing abilities and are subject to its addictive effects, but never quite manage to access astral
space

p.135
A spirit cannot access Resonance through possessing a technomancer. Since technomancers are immune to the effects and addicting properties of tempo, however, this is unlikely to crop up.

If you are, however, suggesting that losing one's Magic through Tempo doesn't constitute a burn out, I might point out that a tempo addict is referred to as a burnout in GC.

What if a Latent Technomancer takes Tempo?

The spirit cannot access Resonance. But can a technomancer not gain critter powers through Endowment?

If the character is not addicted to Tempo, is he still a Tempo addict?

[Stahlseele]

Aren't most critter powers kinda dependent on the magic attribute anyway?
So even if you have the power, you do not have the attribute to use it with?