Shadow's Dawn: Diving into the past- recruitment, Recruiting reserves Options

[Aria]

Added in a very rough idea of where I might be going into my post above...those 450pts+freebies certainly don't stretch as far as they might given I'd like to be a good hacker (granted my hacking knowledge is limited so I might ditch this idea entirely) and spellcaster (yes, I know I don't have any skill yet but it is very much a work in progress...

Any comments at this (early) stage much appreciated! Appologies for the formatting too, I will polish it up for the final version!

[pbangarth]

Added in a very rough idea of where I might be going into my post above...those 450pts+freebies certainly don't stretch as far as they might given I'd like to be a good hacker (granted my hacking knowledge is limited so I might ditch this idea entirely) and spellcaster (yes, I know I don't have any skill yet but it is very much a work in progress...

Any comments at this (early) stage much appreciated! Appologies for the formatting too, I will polish it up for the final version!

Just a quick look:

I notice you have 15 BP assigned to Relationships, with 17 points spent. You have 8 points from your Charisma, and 15 + 8 = 23, so there is room for improving your Relationships.

You have the Sorcery group Skills listed at rating 0. I assume you plan to increase that?

I love Edge, even for PCs other than Free Spirits. In this campaign especially, I think a better than average Edge can reflect someone who has lived a lot and has the experience to get through dire straights.

It's nice to see so many of us can fly. How are you going to deal with your Matrix-related equipment when you change to drake-form?

Thanks for putting in the Street cred etc. I always forget about those.

[Aria]

It's nice to see so many of us can fly. How are you going to deal with your Matrix-related equipment when you change to drake-form?

Well it's no use in drake form (even trodes don't work) so I was going to go along the lines of it being on an elasticated band on my arm that will stretch when I change forms. For similar reasons I am playing with the idea of not wearing any clothes and using an illusion spell to be clothed...armour coming from an adept power possibly...?!? Minimal equipment is the way I want to go so that I'm free to switch at will (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) With hardened armour at 6 I will probably fight in drake form (when it won't freak out the neighbours...)

Seth, couple of questions: with appropriate restricted gear qualities can I take some of the milspec matrix equipment in War! ? Most of the commlinks have silly availabilities (a Transys Cybernaut would be fab but at 48F might be a bit out of reach (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) ) but I think some of the programs might be doable? It fits my concept of being a progeny of Celedyr (should I take him as a faction or fiddle with the contact rules for him?) with access to Transys' top stuff...

Can I take the Rush adept power from War! ? 0.5 pts for +1IP for a rnd with drain at the end of it...drain is higher depending on how many IPs you end up with...

[Ol' Scratch]

I had an idea last night, too.

We've all been around for thousands upon thousands of years, and we've had ample opportunity to amass wealth either directly or indirectly, and we should have knowledge and skills that would have been an asset in the Sixth World alone. Is there any way you can allow us to reflect that by letting us have a free permanent lifestyle, even if only Middle or High (maybe 20ish Lifestyle Points, max) in nature? It would certainly ease things just a little more for us so we can focus on what we need to, while still reflecting that we at least had some amount of notable wealth at one point or another in our lifetimes.

[Paul Kauphart]

Questions about chargen, how much BP are we allow to spend on qualities (either positives or negative ones) and how much BP can we spend in attributes ?

if spending the 20 charma on initiation (at 60% of the cost), can we consider group initiations or ordeal ?

[pbangarth]

I had an idea last night, too.

We've all been around for thousands upon thousands of years, and we've had ample opportunity to amass wealth either directly or indirectly, and we should have knowledge and skills that would have been an asset in the Sixth World alone. Is there any way you can allow us to reflect that by letting us have a free permanent lifestyle, even if only Middle or High (maybe 20ish Lifestyle Points, max) in nature? It would certainly ease things just a little more for us so we can focus on what we need to, while still reflecting that we at least had some amount of notable wealth at one point or another in our lifetimes.

I am reminded of Highlander.

[pbangarth]

Questions about chargen, how much BP are we allow to spend on qualities (either positives or negative ones) and how much BP can we spend in attributes ?

if spending the 20 charma on initiation (at 60% of the cost), can we consider group initiations or ordeal ?

We have been going with the standard 35 limit for Qualities, plus and minus, and standard half ( so 225) for base attributes. We get 4 Initiations for free, and that's all we can have, so don't spend on that.

[Ol' Scratch]

I am reminded of Highlander.

True. I just think its a great way to give the feeling that we obtained some amount of wealth in our lifetimes without actually being wealthy mechanically.

Also, what's going on with your group name that was brought up at the end of the other thread? Anyone have any other ideas so we can maybe vote or something?

[Paul Kauphart]

posting from my mobile, i probably won't have interndt until next saturday. I'll release my char sheet then.

[Ol' Scratch]

I'm slowly adding my various stats as I format and finalize each section. Still struggling with some of my equipment choices, and my poor skills are taking a brutal beating as I go back and forth. <mutter mutter>

[pbangarth]

I don't have access to the latest few books. Can someone explain Mind Over Matter to me, please?

[Ol' Scratch]

Mind Over Matter
Cost: 1.5 (may only be taken once)
The adept is truly a master of mind over matter and may use one Mental attribute in place of one Physical attribute for any tests. The attributes used must correspond per the Astral Attributes table (p. 192, SR4A); for example, only Charisma may be used in place of Strength, only Logic for Agility, etc. Once the attribute substitution is chosen for this power, it cannot be changed.

Pretty handy for cerebral types. At least I can almost shoot a gun decently well now. I'm rationalizing it IC as his intuitive understanding of anatomy, physics, and similar disciplines, allowing him to either aim for particularly vulnerable areas or anticipate reactions/environmental variables/etc. Should be fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I was really happy to see them add more mind-oriented abilities for adepts.

[pbangarth]

Looks cool. I guess I'm going to have to get my hands on that book. I like playing adepts, and more mental powers would go well with one I am playing on Dumpshock right now. Thanks.

[Seth]

Well my 48 hours of being trapped in a plane/train/automobile is over, now I just have the 24 hours of sleeping to recover!

My original deadlines were: Characters ready 1st March, start 7th March. I have had a couple of posts from people who cannot quite make the 1st March. Those people have done a decent first stab at characters, but we all know that we like to refine them a bit. I'm still going with the 7th March.

My purpose for the week after the 1st March is to refine the adventure that I have planned out. At the moment is a bit like an adventure pack you might buy: NPCs, a rough plan of events, some maps, motivations and timelines and stuff. It doesn't include any references to the PCs themselves. Thus I am actually more bothered about fluff than I am about the character design: relationships, contacts, enemies, dependants... The more you give me, the more I can personalise it for you.

Its my suspicion that within the first few weeks of playing the character you will be going "DOH!. I should have included this, I forgot this or I didn't realise how weak I am in this area". ( I have every single time I have played a pbp) Because of that I am giving every one a free respec token that has to be used by the end of April (although you still have to keep the same character feel). One purpose of this is to reduce any pressure on "I must get this character exactly right".

I have had opportunity to make a few characters now with this many bps. I share your pain...bit hard to get the skills in. I'll remind you that you are the second tier immortals, not the god like, and that the mundane baddies are being run as defined by the shadowrun rules: 6..12 die for most guards. Most mundane opponents will have 1 or (if drugged) 2. There are seriously hard people out there (mostly other immortals / horrors, but some prime runners too), but you cannot make yourselves good enough to solo them, so don't bother.

@Ol'scratch: Clarification on background count in the past. In the initial game that I am planning on running, if it goes to plan (but there are PCs involved and how knows), -7 is the worst negative you have to deal with.

@Pbangarth: "Yeah, well, let's wait to see what Seth thinks is a good test for us". Mu ha ha. You are invading an Aztec research facility in prison garb. How bad could it get?

@Aria:

• Thanks for playing a decker, I was struggling with how I was going to get an NPC in.
• "I was going to go along the lines of it being on an elasticated band on my arm that will stretch when I change forms". Happy with that idea
• Adept powers from War!. I'm sorry I haven't had time to check them out. Rush looks pretty broken to me as does Mind Over Matter. I think I will carry on with the general consensus on dumpshock that War! is broken
• A decent deck. If you have hardware 4 and software 4, you can have availability 16 on any hardware or software. If you make then 6, they can go up to availability 20. Restricted gear adds 8 to those numbers. I haven't had a good look at War! yet, but if you post me what you want (even if its a bit over the availability limit) I'll rule on it.

@Ol'scratch: Lifestyles. Pay for 1 month's lifestyle, and don't worry about it. In many shadowrun games money is an important driver, so keeping track of the nuyen matters. I'm not expecting it to matter much in this game. You are all clearly capable of finding money when you need it: hence the free starting wealth, and the cyberware being deltaware.

@Paul. "If spending the 20 charma on initiation (at 60% of the cost)..." You are a member of magical group (the other players), and of course you did an ordeal, thats how you get the 0.6. Given that you did the ordeal a very long time ago, you cannot even remember what it was.

I hope I have answered all the questions outstanding. If not please post it again!

A couple of questions for you:

• If you haven't already done so, please say which type of Earthdawn adept you were. If you don't know, say so, and I am sure that the others or I will advise you of something.
• Can you all post roughly what information gathering you are doing during the time line I posted in the initial post. contacts: charisma + etiquette. You can add the benefits for being face to face if you think that you can get a meeting with them. Datasearching is using the usual RAW rules.

[Ol' Scratch]

Earthdawn Discipline: Weaponsmith, with a few circles as a Lightbearer thrown in for good measure.
Information Gathering: A combination of watcher spirits (probably with a Guidance spirit running overwatch for them) and traditional data search techniques (bolstered through Enlightening if necessary). If relevant, he'd certainly use psychometry as well, but I don't see anything appropriate for that up until he gains the Ring of Tunneling (assuming he's given it at all).

In a PM you mentioned something about posting more information about contacts and reputations, too, but I can't seem to spot any changes.

[Seth]

@Ol'scratch. I was just referencing why I wanted the details...see main post just above.

I have now learned why GMs often post a few "reserved" posts at the start of a thread.

Here are the security briefs that you are given. You received them in the aircraft on the way to Atzlan

Map: best they could get you

Physical security

[ Spoiler ]

Physical assets
We know that the pyramid can seal itself off. It only has two main doors. There is a barracks with 60 of the Aztech military based here

Commander:
Major Nopaltzin. Sex uncertain, name implied male. Heavily cybered. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Captain: Zeia. <redacted for security reasons>, <redacted for security reasons> I LIKE HER, SHE'S SWEET <lots of porngraphic images of Zeia in various bondage outfits>
Master Sergeant Huicton. Physical adept, specialised in melee combat and stealth
Master sergeant Tiacapan. Female physical adept. Known as the sword witch.

We believe that the third level has multiple SAM sites separate from the surrounding compound. We have not been able to OF COURSE YOU HAVEN'T: THE SAM SITES ARE MY TOY. SEE HOW GREAT THEY ARE<technical specifications follow: 6 SAM sites: 5 hypersonic kinetic energy kill, and 1 killer laser mounted in the apex).

Matrix security

[ Spoiler ]

We believe that the pyramid has three separate matrix systems. GUESS AGAIN
The “black” network provides access for researchers to the matrix. We have <redacted for security reasons> and <redacted for security reasons>. It is well designed and maintained by Tony. TONY'S USELESS. HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ME
The “red” network is internal only. It is wireless. Most cameras and security systems seem to run off this. We have <redacted for security reasons> and <redacted for security reasons> and <redacted for security reasons>. 6 spiders live on site, and at any one time you can expect 2..4 of them present. REDACTED?..THATS WHAT YOU THINK.
We suspect that that there is a crimson circuit on floor 2 as we are unable to access it even from the red.

Known IC:
YOU DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE IC. WORRY ABOUT ME!

Spiders:
Jonathan Beaureguard. Race Human. Age 35. Icon: Black Spider. Corporate hacker. Good credentials. Recruited from Fuchi black ops when Fuchi collaped. HE'S THE BEST. I LOVE YOU JONATHAN.

Hammer (real name unknown). Paraplegic. Adept hacker. HE'S USELESS I HATE HIM

Zero. SWEET. KIND. LOTS OF FRIENDS. RICH. SEXY. HAS LOTS OF GIRLS. YOU CAN FIND ME AT “sexy@lotsOfFriends.com”

IF YOU CAN <encrypted data>

COME ON IF YOU THINK YOU ARE HARD ENOUGH!

Magical security

[ Spoiler ]

Each level has its own ward. They are all very powerful. Most have been made by Warder.
The reactor area is not ward-able, so they have bound 3 toxic spirits there. This means that <redacted for security reasons> and <redacted for security reasons>

There are believed to be four major Aztec priests in the temple:

Alias: Tenzacatetl. Monikor: Boss. Race elf. Tissue sample: no. Astral signature: no.

[ Spoiler ]

• Probably our most serious threat.
• <redacted for security reasons>
• We have been unable to acquire a material sample, or valid astral signatures.
• Among other things this implies his masking is much better than his compatriots.
• <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>
• It is recommended that you <redacted for security reasons> and avoid all contact with this individual.

Suspicions:

• <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>

Weaknesses:

• <redacted for security reasons>

Real name. Acatlozin Ahexotl. Monikor: Warder. Race: Human.Tissue sample: yes. Astral signature: yes.

[ Spoiler ]

• Standard human mage.
• Worked for a while with Renraku.
• Interested in necromancy: keeping metahumans alive when they should be dead and <redacted for security reasons> .
• A possession blood mage mage.
• <redacted for security reasons>
• Known to be at least a grade 3 initiate with powers including <redacted for security reasons>.
• We believe that this is their best creator of magical wards.

Weaknesses:

• Extreme arrogance
• known to have ritual geas: human sacrifice and condition: blood on hands
• known to have had a bad matrix experience involving black IC

Real name. Camaxtli Cenyaotl. Monikor: Spirit bane. Race: Unknown.Tissue sample: yes. Astral signature: yes.

[ Spoiler ]

• Highly qualified mystic adept.
• A graduate of <redacted for security reasons>'s academy.
• Deadly in astral combat, and known to be capable of killing spirits with a gaze and <redacted for security reasons>.
• <redacted for security reasons>
• Seems to be capable of <redacted for security reasons>
• and <redacted for security reasons>
• <redacted for security reasons>

Weaknesses

• Extreme arrogance
• Ritual geas: meditate one hour, have consumed a spirit
• Condition geas: holding weapon foci (confidence: 70%)

Real name. Ezhuahuacatl Opochtli. Monikor: Snake head. Race: Fomori. Tissue sample: yes. Astral signature: yes.

[ Spoiler ]

• Not liked by his colleagues
• Warning he <redacted for security reasons>
• and <redacted for security reasons>
• Capable of partial shapeshifting.

Weaknesses

• Randomly kills people around him
• Extreme arrogance
• Has a <redacted for security reasons> and <redacted for security reasons>

[Seth]

I too don't see the clarification about Damage spells doing Magic damage. How does that work? Can a spell at Force 1 do 9 damage?

Just making sure everyone knows how damage spells work:

Successes restricted by force. So the force 1 spell could do 9 damage if they rolled no successes.
Damage: your magic attribute, instead of the force of spell
Resisted by: same as in RAW

Why the change?
Overcasting was crazy in RAW: see the many threads in the rules discussion. The attempt by the rules writers in SR4a actually made it more desirable to overcast: I don't think they had playtested them. For force magic 9 magicians, its a little powerful (but hey your meant to be tough, and don't worry the baddies know all about casting them too).

Edit: removed

On a second note, in my original list of rule modifications I remove multi-casting as an option for spellcasters. I've added it back into the list of rule modifications on the first post.

[pbangarth]

Just making sure everyone knows how damage spells work:

Successes restricted by force. So the force 1 spell could do 9 damage if they rolled no successes.
Damage: your magic attribute, instead of the force of spell
Resisted by: same as in RAW

Why the change?
Overcasting was crazy in RAW: see the many threads in the rules discussion. The attempt by the rules writers in SR4a actually made it more desirable to overcast: I don't think they had playtested them. For force magic 9 magicians, its a little powerful (but hey your meant to be tough, and don't worry the baddies know all about casting them too).

On a second note, in my original list of rule modifications I remove multi-casting as an option for spellcasters. I've added it back into the list of rule modifications on the first post.

OK, just so I have it straight, whether I cast at Force 1 or Force 18, the spell does 9 damage. Is that right?

And net hits add to the 9?

[Ol' Scratch]

Yeah, that's really confusing and sounds kind of crazy to boot. Getting rid of overcasting seems to be make a lot more sense if that's your issue. I mean, what if you don't actually want to completely obliterate your target, and how can other forms of attack keep up? And more importantly, how can people defend against things like that?

Also, did you still want to know what Alacia has to "convince" us to help her with this mission?

[Sephiroth]

I CAN HAZ HELP PLZ?

I'm currently at 503 BP. I need some assistance in trimming the BP fat that I have right now. I've already had to reduce several attributes lower than I wanted, get rid of the hopes for a stacked Weapon 4 / Power 4 force 8 focus because of how prohibitively expensive the latter is, and a few other things. I really want to stay as true to my character concept as possible (a strong and versatile magician who is also good at melee combat through the creative combination of Levitate, an emphasis on speed and skill over brute strength, and his weapon focus), but I'm finding that very difficult. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

[pbangarth]

@Sephiroth:

Do you take into account that you have 60,000 nuyen because of your 6 WIL? If not, there's 12 BP.

I kept Skills at a pretty low level, to go with high level Attributes. Justified by saying something about innate ability stayed over the millennia, but Skills eroded if not used. I know your plan is to be a powerful mage and a boffo warrior, but maybe a few dice fewer is not so bad. Multi-class always pays. I think this is the big issue with your guy's cost.

You might want to avoid allergy to orichalcum if you are an enchanter.

There's a problem with Quickened Increase [Attribute] bumping astral Attributes (like INT). It's a Physical spell. Oh, you have Increase [REA] in your spell list. I assume that should be [INT]?

@ Ol' Scratch:

I didn't even think about the 'pull your punches' angle. Thanks for bringing that up. I have Absorption as a metamagic, but I will have to rethink that. It's primary strength is the ability to help absorb Drain. Mandala has a few spells with higher DV. I need to do some calculating.

[Ol' Scratch]

I CAN HAZ HELP PLZ?

I'm currently at 503 BP. I need some assistance in trimming the BP fat that I have right now. I've already had to reduce several attributes lower than I wanted, get rid of the hopes for a stacked Weapon 4 / Power 4 force 8 focus because of how prohibitively expensive the latter is, decrease my offensive skills in melee by 2-3 points each, and a few other things. I really want to stay as true to my character concept as possible (a strong and versatile magician who is also good at melee combat through the creative combination of Levitate and his weapon focus), but I'm finding that very difficult. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

I'm going to go ahead and assume that you don't mind us looking at your sheet then? (I try to avoid that normally out of respect, and also because it can be fun learning these things IC instead.)

The first thing I noticed is that your concept seems to feel more like a Mystic Adept rather than a Magician, if not a flat-out Adept. Have you considered toying around with those instead? I mean, most of your spells seem focused on bolstering your body or mind, and you're clearly concentrating on being a melee bad ass. I know for a fact that Seth is open to new ideas and reinterpretations of existing rules to make them fit your concept better, so maybe you can ask him about changing a few adept powers around. For instance, making Elemental Strike so that it works with Improved Blades so that you can give your spear that mystical vibe, and/or tapping into previous editions and allowing Elemental Strike to work with Distance Strike so that you can use it to attack people at range, too. This would then let you focus on honing your physical side, trim down your skills, and otherwise give you a bit more focus as well as a unique feel that makes you stand out amongst the other immortals.

Heck, there used to be an adept power created by one of the original designers of the game (who's name slips my mind right now) that gave adepts access to a spell. If you could find that on the Internet and try to convert it to 4th Edition's rules, that'd be another way you can do the above while retaining some of the concepts you have in mind, such as casting illusions and whatnot.

This is all based on the first impression I got strictly from the rules you posted. I haven't read over your concept and don't know what your history is like, so maybe a Magician makes a lot more sense. If so, here's a few other things I noticed and suggest looking into a bit more critically:

Quickening. The two spells you're using it with can be just as functional inside a Sustaining Focus, and going that route actually makes you a little more versatile as those foci (which are limited to spell categories rather than specific spells) can be used for other things if you need to. This is especially true with the Health one, as you have a number of sustainable spells in that category. On a related not, I'm unsure of the shorthand you're using with your current foci. Do you have two, with one being a Force 3 Weapon/Force 5 Sustaining stacked one, and the other being a Force 8 Weapon Focus? Or are they one in the same? I'm assuming its just one, but if you have two like that you may wanna rethink it. Also, how do you go about transporting a scythe like that? I imagine we're still going to have to worry about security checkpoints and the like, at the very least in the Sixth World era. Just something to consider.

You do have a few Active Skills that seem weird. For example, why is Cybertechnology so high? You don't seem to have any abilities or skills to compliment it. And why are so many of your magical skills so low? But I guess that's more a consequence of 4th Edition's Attribute dice = Skill dice mechanics. Still seems odd to me for a dedicated magician.

Other than that, I don't know. Your numbers don't seem to be in excess of 450 to me, but I'm pretty terrible with math. Your Attributes and Active Skills only come to 337 Build Points, meaning you have a hefty 113 left to blow (which even with your spell list leaves you with a good 400,000+ nuyen). Coupled with all the freebies, including wealth and contact points... well I dunno. Seems off somehow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sephiroth]

@Sephiroth:

Do you take into account that you have 60,000 nuyen because of your 6 WIL? If not, there's 12 BP.

I kept Skills at a pretty low level, to go with high level Attributes. Justified by saying something about innate ability stayed over the millennia, but Skills eroded if not used. I know your plan is to be a powerful mage and a boffo warrior, but maybe a few dice fewer is not so bad. Multi-class always pays. I think this is the big issue with your guy's cost.

You might want to avoid allergy to orichalcum if you are an enchanter.

There's a problem with Quickened Increase [Attribute] bumping astral Attributes (like INT). It's a Physical spell. Oh, you have Increase [REA] in your spell list. I assume that should be [INT]?

Kind of. I'd like to save the majority of that for lifestyle and other gear than a focus and a pistolsword, but I am keeping that in mind.

It seems there was a technical difficulty in copy-and-paste translation. :/ But I'm not terribly concerned with the Increase Attribute spells carrying over into the astral. The Increase Intuition is more intended to give a good base for Perception and Assensing, boost the dice on my end of the opposed roll to pierce my masking to 18 dice before initiate grade (because no one will be able to try to dispel the quickened spells if they can't pierce my masking to know that the spells are even there), and give him a decent DP for learning and improving new skills to help explain the 6 Cybertechnology (which I want so as to save Restricted Gear for better things than muscle toner).

[pbangarth]

Ol' Scratch makes a good point about adepts.

The INT boost from the spell looks like it carries on into your astral Initiative. That's what made me comment.

[Ol' Scratch]

I've got another question myself.

Seth, are Knowledge Skills exempt from the limitation of rating 6 and 5 skills? It's always been a bit hazy to me in the default rules. Also, I feel like I'm missing something in my current list of Knowledge Skills. If no one minds taking a peek, can you offer some insight into what that could be? I'm sure its something obvious, but I can't figure it out.