Just how is my character to be viewed by others?, what does a dice pool of 20 look like? Options

[tundrawalker1]

Hey all. Thanks for the suggestions I received in other threads. To set the table, this is the first time I and the majority of our group has played Shadowrun. Despite many many years of RPG experience, only this past Saturday was this first time Shadowrun was played in this group and only two of the member out of 7 have any experience with it from the past. I had made a thread where I asked for build advice with a nosferatu and I took the advice that was given to me and that advice was not to play a nosferatu! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/talker.gif)

One of the pieces of advice I was given was, due to my lack of knowledge of the game, was to play a more straight-forward character like a face or sam. Well, I did create a Face and I am very very pleased with him. I think I have a good grasp of what he can and cannot do but I would like to know what his scores mean other than a numerical value.

He is a dryad with a charisma score of 7 and has the tailored pheromones 3 cyberware, kinesics 3 adept power, 4 on the Influence group and the +3 to social tests that comes with the dryad. And, of course, he has the glamour power that comes with being a dryad. My question is, what does this translate to in game. I believe he is a handsome and inspiring person on level with a great speaker. I know that a 20 dice pool on social tests is good but nowhere near as high as you can get with a theoritical numbers experiment you can attain in the pornomancer threads but what does this guy translate to.

There is a breakdown of what the ranks look like for skills but not for attributes nor for total dice pools. So, my question to those of you with experience in the game, what does a charisma of 7 look like and what does a dice pool of 20 dice translate to for social tests. In a nutshell, what historical figure would you compare him to and his dice pool of 20 dice in social situations.

Thanks in advance for your responses. This is not a rules question per sey but it is a discussion on what the rules look like. Cheers!

[Ol' Scratch]

Do you have access to Dragons of the Sixth World? If so, look up Dion's entry in the back. That's about how a souped-up magical Face would come across as, especially if its based on things like Charisma, Kinesics, and Glamour. Everyone he ever has a dealing with will always remember him (so Distinguishing Style and similar qualities should almost be mandatory).

[Mardrax]

As an option from the Advanced Character Concepts chapter from Runners Companion, a dryad has Distinctive Style by default.

Since neither magically or technologically augmented people have never existed, real life examples would be impossible to give.

[Cain]

The answer is, whatever you want him to look like.

Charisma isn't equal to looks. There are many charismatic speakers who would never make it as models. The universal thing is that he can easily get people to accept what he says, is probably very likable, and gets respect. Exactly how he does that is up to you, and how you roleplay/envision the character. He could rely on his looks, or on natural people skills, or even just sheer force of personality. That's all up to you, though, and not a mechanical choice.

He doesn't even have to be likable all the time. A Humanis (human supremacist) goon won't like your character since he's metahuman, but will end up negotiating with you. He's unlikely to be swayed by your good looks, but he might lean towards a sympathetic ear. The bottom line is, there's a lot of ways you could play this out, and you get to choose which one your character will take.

[Mr Clock]

If you can be heard, you will be obeyed.

If you can be seen, you will be worshipped.

Your powers of persuasion verge on hypnotic.

Jesus, Dunklezhan, the Fonz. Amateurs.

Consider yourself a target for every corp and underworld agency that wants to influence people.

[Mardrax]

A Humanis goon could very well like this character. All it takes is an Etiquette + Cha roll, opposed by his Perception + Cha, with a modifier of -2 from being prejudiced, and maybe a -2 from not having "the right look". This would take him from Prejudiced to Friendly on 3 net hits. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But anyway, yeah. Charisma is an ungraspable concept. If you want to say he's handsome, go for it, but he doesn't have to be, and that's not where the majority of his skills come from. What he will be is memorable and recognisable, unless you take good measures to tone it down.

[tundrawalker1]

The answer is, whatever you want him to look like.

Charisma isn't equal to looks. There are many charismatic speakers who would never make it as models. The universal thing is that he can easily get people to accept what he says, is probably very likable, and gets respect. Exactly how he does that is up to you, and how you roleplay/envision the character. He could rely on his looks, or on natural people skills, or even just sheer force of personality. That's all up to you, though, and not a mechanical choice.

He doesn't even have to be likable all the time. A Humanis (human supremacist) goon won't like your character since he's metahuman, but will end up negotiating with you. He's unlikely to be swayed by your good looks, but he might lean towards a sympathetic ear. The bottom line is, there's a lot of ways you could play this out, and you get to choose which one your character will take.

Yeah, you are taking my post literally when I should have been clearer. I am not asking what his physical appearance is as that is up to me but rather, what does the dice pool do to others. How do they view him? And to the poster above who said it is impossible to compare him to anyone as there has never been a cyber/magic improved person in history, again you are being too literal. I am asking for a comparrison of the dice pool or how that dice pool effects others.

Basically, would he have the same or more clout than the Emperor in Star Wars, Martin Luther King, JFK, Hitler, the Pope, etc. Thanks to all who have posted so far!

[Ol' Scratch]

There's literally an example of such a character. See my early post for the reference. Dion is exactly the type of example you're looking for.

EDIT: Sorry, his current name is Damon. Dion was an old alias. You can find him on pages 160-162 in Dragons of the Sixth World.

[Cain]

Yeah, you are taking my post literally when I should have been clearer. I am not asking what his physical appearance is as that is up to me but rather, what does the dice pool do to others. How do they view him?

I did answer that question, but I'll clarify. The dicepool does nothing, it's your decisions on character roleplay that changes how people view him. Are you playing him as a handsome and charming rogue? A strong personality and inspiring leader? A persuasive speaker? How do you *want* him to be seen? You then back that up by rolling dice, but the approach is up to you.

[tundrawalker1]

There's literally an example of such a character. See my early post for the reference. Dion is exactly the type of example you're looking for.

EDIT: Sorry, his current name is Damon. Dion was an old alias. You can find him on pages 160-162 in Dragons of the Sixth World.

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have that book. I wish I did if it answered my question so easily.

[Mardrax]

*shrug* The description of Damon is really lacking, if not terribly one sided if you ask me. Though he's definitely one of the possibilities.
This politicians, good leaders. Where good means able to get people to do stuff. From Lincoln to Obama, from Hitler to Vader to the Emperor, from the best paid coaches in the NFL and FIFA, from the Dalai Lama to "that cheerleader who will definitely win prom queen", from Brad Pitt to Jenna Jameson, from the Queen of England to L. Ron Hubbard and his spiritual descendants. From Charles Manson to that one telemarketer who can actually sell you something you had no idea you wanted or needed.

[CanRay]

Winston Churchill?

[Ol' Scratch]

Most of those examples would be fine if he was just a Charisma junkie, but he's got the total package. Looks, body language, and otherworldly vibes. Even if he dressed incognito, heads would turn when he walked into a room.

[CanRay]

*Thinks about Winston Churchill trying to dress "Incognito" and brain explodes*

[Mardrax]

Having a good Etiquette roll actually tends to mean you blend in exceptionally and conform to all standards expected of you in a given setting, if you choose it to be so.
Disguise should be able to mitigate the effect as well, as it's not just changing how you look, it's changing how you carry yourself. See Johnny Depp vs Jack Sparrow vs Edward Scissorhands.

[CanRay]

Tom Cruise had to learn how to blend in for "Collateral". A world-famous face, and he had to learn how NOT to be recognized, even with a "Hey, did you know you look like..." comment.

From the extras on the DVD, IIRC, he did it by posing as a Fed-Ex delivery man and a lot of practice. It can be done, but takes practice and work. I, personally, learned to blend in and stand out as needed for very different reasons, and, while rusty, can still do it.

[Mardrax]

Of course. Every new use of a skill takes practise.
I can take my skill at playing guitar and a plethora of other instruments, combined with general musical knowledge, and apply it to playing a cello and do better than an untrained person, while doing worse than a trained cello player, until I get some solid practise in. A beat cop could take his skill with his service pistol to fire a .50 cal.

Shadowrun chooses to ignore this though. Barring specialisations, if you're good at one aspect of the skill, you're good at them all.

[CanRay]

And skills get rusty too. I know I can't code half as well as I used to.

[Mardrax]

And skills get rusty too. I know I can't code half as well as I used to.

Oh yes. Hell. every time I turn to a demo version of InDesign to help in some school project, I need to take an hour to reacquaint myself. Worse, if I don't play guitar for a week, I'm basically setting myself back a month. "Use it or lose it" is a true adage, in RL anyway. Not in SR though.

[CanRay]

One advantage of Simsense, you can keep your skills up without having to leave your squat. Just make sure you have sensors out for when you're out of your body and in the virtual world.

[Glyph]

Kinesics would probably help a character blend in, since it is total control of your body's subconscious cues. Tailored pheromones can be subtle. But glamour makes a character very memorable and conspicuous - just look at the flavor text for it.

A 20 dice pool in social skills is like the sammie having a 20 dice pool in pistols - he has some slack, in combat, and can successfully shoot people in the face of penalties that would make most other people miss. But his skill doesn't compensate for poor tactics. If he stands in the open and doesn't take cover, or if he walks into an ambush, his high dice pool won't do him any good.

High social skills are the same way. By themselves, you can leverage situations to your advantage if you are savvy, or be like the con man always running a few steps ahead of vengeful marks if you use your abilities to blatantly manipulate people. But your character is only a magnetic personality - he will need more than that to be a mover and shaker, if that is his goal. He is like all of those movies about aspiring musicians (Purple Rain and the like). He has the talent to be a star, but he needs to hustle to get there, and either be lucky, or create some breaks for himself.

One thing to keep in mind about social skills is that they are a lot more subjective than combat skills, so they depend on the GM a lot more. In some campaigns, a dice pool of 20 means people will tend to like you. In other campaigns, a dice pool of 20 will let you get away with some rather unrealistic things.

[Blade]

High social dice pools are difficult to imagine, harder than high physical dice pools.

This article gives a good idea on how charisma works.
Now just think that Bill Clinton's dice pool doesn't go much higher than 14.

[CanRay]

Never underestimate the eyes. Even when they're hidden by mirrorshades or replaced by cyberoptics, they give forth a lot of information and influence.

The "Intimidation Glare" in the movie Heat is infamous. No words, just a look, and everyone in the restaurant knows they better mind their own damned business or else.

[phlapjack77]

One thing to keep in mind about social skills is that they are a lot more subjective than combat skills, so they depend on the GM a lot more. In some campaigns, a dice pool of 20 means people will tend to like you. In other campaigns, a dice pool of 20 will let you get away with some rather unrealistic things.

Just a minor quibble, but a dice pool of 20 SHOULD let you get away with some rather unrealistic things. That's probably a 7 skill, 7 stat, +6 in bonuses: that's unheard of levels of expertise, according to the rulebooks.

The "Intimidation Glare" in the movie Heat is infamous. No words, just a look, and everyone in the restaurant knows they better mind their own damned business or else.

Must.....watch.....Heat.....again....now.....thanks alot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cain]

High social dice pools are difficult to imagine, harder than high physical dice pools.

Not really. Just imagine it as embodying a certain style to a high degree.

High physical dice pools are also in the "roleplay your vision" category. Some people think that you'd move like a cat, and that's certainly a possibility. But some martial artists use center control to hide their abilities, so you'd look perfectly normal. It all depends on how you want it to look.