Enchanted Bullets?, Fireball Rounds, ohhhh yeah Options

[Socinus]

I was wondering if I could throw a question at someone more familiar with the enchanting mechanics.

How exactly would you go about enchanting ammunition, bullets or bolts, such that a spell would discharge when they hit a target? Mechanics, skills, materials, rolls, etc etc.

I've looked at the issue before but I wasnt able to sort it out.

[Jhaiisiin]

As I understand it, you can't. Spells, wards and such cannot be anchored to moving objects.

[Fringe]

Anchoring (Street Magic, pp 59-60). It's terribly expensive (spend Karma = Force, per shot), and you'd have to be at least a Grade-2 Initiate to have access to that metamagic technique. If you want the bullet damage in addition to the spell, this is the way you'd probably have to go.

Otherwise, probably what you want is to check with your GM to see if he/she will let you use a gun as a fetish for your spell. I probably wouldn't let you use a functioning firearm as a fetish, but maybe something that looks vaguely like a firearm (in a way analogous to those who use dolls in sympathetic magic). You could define the "shot" as the way in which your spell manifests, and it would be entirely for RP purposes.

I suppose you could design a new spell to do something like that, with correspondingly greater drain, or you could multicast a single-target spell with your area-effect spell (using your "gun" as a fetish).

[CanRay]

Maybe one of those novelty "Pistol Lighters" that shoots out a Fireball Spell as you light your smoke?

And then discard the lit cigarette behind you onto the trail of gasoline to explode the barrels behind you as you walk away, not looking, and your lined coat flaps in the concussion of the blast?

[Tanegar]

I probably wouldn't let you use a functioning firearm as a fetish

Why not? You can't shoot and cast a spell at the same time; mechanically, it's identical to having a gun and a fetish, except that when you get frisked and your gun taken away, you also lose the fetish (which otherwise might have been overlooked).

[Ol' Scratch]

Yeah, by the rules your only chance at creating magic bullets come in the form of Anchoring Foci. Which is a horrible, horrible waste of resources.

As a house rule, however, we allow "elemental bullets" for basic (ie, not heavily modified or technologically advanced) shotguns and revolvers. They're basically rounds made from refined reagents and decorated with eldritch runes and the like. Expensive (roughly 1,000 nuyen a round), but not to the point of being completely out there as per Anchoring Foci. Especially since their only real advantage is getting around Immunity to Normal Weapons. They were limited to revolvers and shotguns because of the relative simplicity of their design. For some weird mumbo-jumbo reason, the high tech nature of other types of firearms disrupted the delicate enchantment of the rounds.

[CanRay]

If incapacitation is what you're aiming for when it comes to "Immunity to Natural Weapons", might I suggest a cheaper alternative?

Stolen Dump Truck full of Sand. Hit target with it, and park it on him. Laugh as he tries to lift it off of him. Run away, real fast. Preferably in a vehicle.

[Tanegar]

If incapacitation is what you're aiming for when it comes to "Immunity to Natural Weapons", might I suggest a cheaper alternative?

Stolen Dump Truck full of Sand. Hit target with it, and park it on him. Laugh as he tries to lift it off of him. Run away, real fast. Preferably in a vehicle.

And if your target is a spirit, die horribly when it shifts back to the astral, phases through the pile of sand and the dump truck, chases you down at astral speeds, and materializes inside your vehicle.

[UmaroVI]

Per the FAQ, you can do this with Possession Spirits.

Bullet vessels possessed by spirits may be used to deliver an astral attack from the spirit (p. 87, Street Magic), provided the dual-natured bullet can make contact with the astral form; this will require the expenditure of a service from the spirit like any other attack.

[CanRay]

And if your target is a spirit, die horribly when it shifts back to the astral, phases through the pile of sand and the dump truck, chases you down at astral speeds, and materializes inside your vehicle.

Well, obviously the right tool for the right job.

And Spirits tend to have weaknesses other than normal weapons you can take advantage of.

[Mardrax]

If you're just looking to bypass ItNW, SnS ammo works fine.

In case of a Fire spirit, fill the truck with water instead of sand.

Also CanRay, thanks for firmly embedding Cool Guys Don't Look At Explosions in my head there.

[Fringe]

Why not? You can't shoot and cast a spell at the same time; mechanically, it's identical to having a gun and a fetish, except that when you get frisked and your gun taken away, you also lose the fetish (which otherwise might have been overlooked).

The problem I'm thinking of is that someone will try to insist that you then could cast and shoot at the same time. That's the person who will claim something like, "Oh yeah, my spell has a gesture component of pulling the trigger." To which I will respond, "The bullets, being foreign to the fetish [not having been enchanted as part of the fetish], interfere with the magical integrity of the fetish, so you can't cast your limited spell."

You're right, though, as I look at the rules for creating fetishes (Street Magic, p. 81). But a gun most definitely is a mundane telesma (Street Magic, pp. 83-4); from the discussion on p. 83, it's incredibly difficult to handmake a gun like those in the books, and it would be nigh impossible to make one as virgin telesma. Granted, it's not a problem to start with one, but it's going to be more difficult to replace.

[Mardrax]

Firing a weapon is a simple action.
Casting a spell is a complex action.

You can only combine: two simple actions and a free action, or one complex action and a free action in a single Initiative Pass. Hence, you can't shoot them together. Nope, not even using some kind of conglomerated MRSI set up. Period.

[Tanegar]

Personally, I prefer the gun-as-focus rather than gun-as-fetish. Make your gun a combat spellcasting focus, and hey presto, you have a gun that shoots fireballs (or lightning bolts, or whatever other kind of combat spell you need it to). Not really, but you could easily say that the spell manifests from the barrel of the focus-gun. Alternatively, make your gun a detection sustaining focus, and cast Enhance Aim (is that the spell?) into it. Not as flashy as the gun that shoots lightning, but a workable substitute for Improved Ability (Pistols) if you're a full magician rather than an adept.

[Mardrax]

and cast Enhance Aim (is that the spell?) into it.

Analyze Device is what you're looking for.
Get a TM to have his Machine Sprite live in it as well while you're at it.

[Bodak]

As I understand it, you can't. Spells, wards and such cannot be anchored to moving objects.

Aaron's post here points out the horrible consequences of SR4 allowing mobile wards, allowing collision between wards, etc.

cast Enhance Aim (is that the spell?) into it.

Analyze Device is what you're looking for.
Get a TM to have his Machine Sprite live in it as well while you're at it.

Enhance Aim would also be helpful.

[CanRay]

Also CanRay, thanks for firmly embedding Cool Guys Don't Look At Explosions in my head there.

If you don't have exploding barrels and burning cars everywhere after an action scene, you're doing it wrong.

A shot up and crashed Yellowjacket would be nice, too.

[Bodak]

Analyze Device is what you're looking for.

The problem with casting Analyse Device on a firearm is the number of hits you waste on the Object Resistance. If it's a smartgun that's at least 6 hits for no benefit. To get a +1 dice pool bonus you'd need 7 hits (so you'd need to ((potentially) over-)cast the spell at Force 7) and roll average results on 21 dice. Unless you have a F7 sustaining focus or spirit, you then have a -2 dice pool penalty to sustain the effect, negating your +1 bonus. This is overcome when you cast at F9, needing average results on 27 dice, which yields a net +1 die bonus to using that firearm. It may not be the most efficient approach.

[Mardrax]

The problem with casting Analyse Device on a firearm is the number of hits you waste on the Object Resistance. If it's a smartgun that's at least 6 hits for no benefit. To get a +1 dice pool bonus you'd need 7 hits (so you'd need to ((potentially) over-)cast the spell at Force 7) and roll average results on 21 dice. Unless you have a F7 sustaining focus or spirit, you then have a -2 dice pool penalty to sustain the effect, negating your +1 bonus. This is overcome when you cast at F9, needing average results on 27 dice, which yields a net +1 die bonus to using that firearm. It may not be the most efficient approach.

Ah. True enough.

Get an old Winchester 1866 though...

I actually forgot about Enhance Aim being an actual spell. Late night and mental faculties don't combine well it seems (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Lansdren]

I did have a plan for a NPC pistol adept based on the nightside version of the Walking Man,

Carrying twin Attuned 1900 era Colt pistols loaded with bullets with anchored combat spells made by a bunch of monks who make enchanted weapons for the faithfull.



As a player the costs in Karma are astronomical and the cost in money if you could buy the ammo would be off the chart. But as a NPC thing to add flavour and maybe abit of a danger you can get away with a lot.


Personal choices would be a single round with a high force fireball spell anchored to it for those times when you have to kill it with fire

[CanRay]

Why am I thinking of a Colt Paterson modified to fire 13 special cartridges?

[Summerstorm]

I did have a plan for a NPC pistol adept based on the nightside version of the Walking Man,

Carrying twin Attuned 1900 era Colt pistols loaded with bullets with anchored combat spells made by a bunch of monks who make enchanted weapons for the faithfull.



As a player the costs in Karma are astronomical and the cost in money if you could buy the ammo would be off the chart. But as a NPC thing to add flavour and maybe abit of a danger you can get away with a lot.


Personal choices would be a single round with a high force fireball spell anchored to it for those times when you have to kill it with fire

GET OUT OF MY HEAD...
Well, no idea who the walking man is. But i had the idea of a insanely powerful Ki-Magician working for the Vatican. And a cabal of priest-magicians pumped hundreds of point of karma into him: Fully quickened, anchored and hardened high rating spells: Combat sense, armour, enhanced attributes, enhanced senses; everything. And he would use pistols too, with the option to load a SACRED round containing earth-shattering spells *g*. He himself would have counterspelling, magic resistance and mostly defensive- Ki-powers.

Also as a NPC of course. As a fun "OH shit it is HIM... RUUUUUN"-foe

[The Jopp]

Take a magician
Possession tradition
Skills: Archery, Fletching

Magician makes his own arrowheads
summons low force elementals inside arrowhead
fix arrowhead on arrows

Service from elemental:
Elemental aura when lodged into a target
Engulf whatever it lodges inside
Make astral attack on whatever it lodges inside

Give magician a Crossbow and a bunch of elemental filled arrows

[CanRay]

And the Troll Archer just got even more sick.

[Tanegar]

The problem with casting Analyse Device on a firearm is the number of hits you waste on the Object Resistance. If it's a smartgun that's at least 6 hits for no benefit. To get a +1 dice pool bonus you'd need 7 hits (so you'd need to ((potentially) over-)cast the spell at Force 7) and roll average results on 21 dice. Unless you have a F7 sustaining focus or spirit, you then have a -2 dice pool penalty to sustain the effect, negating your +1 bonus. This is overcome when you cast at F9, needing average results on 27 dice, which yields a net +1 die bonus to using that firearm. It may not be the most efficient approach.

What if it's not a smartgun? A basic gun is just a chunk of alloy with some moving parts; in other words, a "manufactured high-tech object" (OR 3). Still not a trivial threshold, but a lot better than OR 6. F6 Analyze Device can potentially give you a +3 bonus, making up for the absence of a smartlink and then some, for only 3 Drain.