Finally got around to reading the Sixth World Almanac, Alternatively: can /dev/grrrl please go away? Options

[IKerensky]

And what if /dev/ is just too true to be true ?

She is definitely not believable as she was like someone that try to hard to impersonnate some character. She's supposed to be new and cute and ignorant but everyone online seems to know and respect her enough to provide her information. And she has information to provide that other are unaware of.

So for me several pov (not necessiraly how she is in RL but how she is in my SR) :

1- She is an sentient AI evolved from an Hello Kitty meet Barbie agenda notebook for Schoolgirls, that is why other hacker seems to respect her and why she has such a special way to socially interract. That is just part of her communication, like if she was a foreigner from girly-land with girlish as her native language.

2- She is a well known Shadowrunner impersonnating her. But in this case, why is no one calling on the bluff ? perhaps that is because it was an hacker that got several neural damage after a run but still possess considerable skills, just suffer from mental delusion and is convinced to be a 15 yrs old girl. Confronting him/her could result in a total breakdown and Jackpoint is protecting his/her.

3- She is overacting, but that is not really a trouble in a world where some people dress as clown or harlequin, some look like a giant turtle or have purple electrical mohawk. Perhaps the overracting could get on the nerves but I think the hackers in VR are used to impersonnate extreme avatars with outlandish personnality. And the reason why the people answer her rather than tell her to *off and read the interdweeb is because they play along as the main use of shadowland is to share information and build a database for everyone in the shadow to use. And some of the shadowrunners could really need some Global World Situation and Common Knowledge 101 (like every child prodigies from the Barrens or Orks Samouraïs that manage to reach international status).

[Mäx]

yet, a girl who had to have someone explain some of the Sixth World history to her - history that, IIRC, isn't even that unknown, is invited in? Uh...

Because you ofcource know everysingle think of the fifth world history for the last 100 years, right.
Also that kind of history knowledge has no relevance what so ever for someones runner skills.

[Grinder]

Wikipedia, anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[ravensmuse]

Because you ofcource know everysingle think of the fifth world history for the last 100 years, right.

No, but I do know how to use a search engine. So should she, if she's half the hacker she's supposed to be.

Also that kind of history knowledge has no relevance what so ever for someones runner skills.

Yup, I agree. But what it does do is make you ask the question - if she's so shit-hot a hacker she can hang out on Jackpoint, why is she having someone hand-hold her through a basic history lesson? It's not that hard.

[ravensmuse]

Wikipedia, anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Damn you Grinder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[IKerensky]

Wikipedia, anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Because Wikipedia doesnt exist in Shadowrun as the idea of an user filled internet database sound just that much dumb and useless a few years ago. It was clear the only true information could only be received from shadownet chat rooms. (does Shadownet have forums ?).

Wich isn't totally unlogical. I cant see Wikipedia or something as global as that exist in the 6th World, every major corporation would have its own version of it and devote a large amount of time to manipulate the informations avaliables on publics areas.

Remember than in SR information is power, and verificated informations, regardless of the exact subject is priceless.

Doesnt sound too dumb to ask to informed people "Hey, what really happened in years 2013, my corpo teach me that, and the matrix told me that, but what was really happening ?"

[Ascalaphus]

Of course, there's S-K's Aetherpedia. That's been pointed to as an actual big encyclopedia-style Matrix resource. But it seems like that kind of thing is rare: the Matrix 1.0 wasn't as free-for-all as our Internet. Even the Matrix 2.0 seems to be heavily corporate-run, with very little user-created things. Although it's hard to come up with good reasons for that, because the everyone-can-hack style of M2.0 should make it very easy.

[Mäx]

No, but I do know how to use a search engine. So should she, if she's half the hacker she's supposed to be.

You still haven't pointed out which commentsw from her in the Almanact brought out all this hate you have on her.
Because i really only found one question she asked where she might have just used the search engine to get the answer, but really if i was hanging out with people who no the event their referring to, i most likely would also just ask them instead of bothering to google it.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Although it's hard to come up with good reasons for that, because the everyone-can-hack style of M2.0 should make it very easy.

You can hack, doesn't mean you will survive the IC later.

[Ascalaphus]

IC doesn't do much to a blogger in AR.

There doesn't really seem to be much holding people back from participating in the Matrix. Any commlink will do as a server for a Node, and generic basic programs aren't too expensive either. Connectivity is also trivial.

[CanRay]

Yup, I agree. But what it does do is make you ask the question - if she's so shit-hot a hacker she can hang out on Jackpoint, why is she having someone hand-hold her through a basic history lesson? It's not that hard.

Because the history classes and lessons she's gotten so far in life came from a very corporate slant.

She is a child of John and Jane Q. Wageslave after all. This is how she learns what is *REALLY* going on.

From a certain point of view, as Obi put it.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Because the history classes and lessons she's gotten so far in life came from a very corporate slant.

She is a child of John and Jane Q. Wageslave after all. This is how she learns what is *REALLY* going on.

From a certain point of view, as Obi put it.

And really, you can't argue that point all that much. Many Corporate Wageslaves are born, brought up, educated, work for, and die within a single Megacorporation, without ever receiving any point of view but the party line. Makes complete sense to me.

[Fatum]

Also that kind of history knowledge has no relevance what so ever for someones runner skills.

Really, not knowing the history of at least the AAAs makes for some really grim career opportunities for a fledging runner. Makes this much harder to tell when your J's about to cross you.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Really, not knowing the history of at least the AAAs makes for some really grim career opportunities for a fledging runner. Makes this much harder to tell when your J's about to cross you.

Which is why /devgrl is asking these types of questions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Fatum]

Not being able to find the answers for the type of questions she's asking herself is even worse :ь

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Not being able to find the answers for the type of questions she's asking herself is even worse :ь

Is it not possible that the answers she has found are ALSO SLANTED to the Corps POV? Gee, that would never happen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Who better to ask than the Top Tier Shadowrunners that she is now hanging out with?

[Sengir]

Remember than in SR information is power, and verificated informations, regardless of the exact subject is priceless.

Exactly, that's the whole point of Jackpoint: You may be a herostratic mass murderer or attempt to sell a member of the community for vivisection, if you are able and willing to share useful info that's fine.


So there's nothing wrong with having a tee-hee-teeny girl on the site. But a character whose main act is "excuse me mister, what's a Predator?" just doesn't make sense unless there is somebody powerful who takes her under the wing...and since Jackpoint is no Waldolf school, I'd expect some heated exchanges in that case.

[Mäx]

Really, not knowing the history of at least the AAAs makes for some really grim career opportunities for a fledging runner. Makes this much harder to tell when your J's about to cross you.

Could you give a page ref where this info of her not knowing AAA:s history can be found?

But a character whose main act is "excuse me mister, what's a Predator?"

Also a page ref for queestions even remptely like this would be nice, if it exists?

[Eimi]

Could you give a page ref where this info of her not knowing AAA:s history can be found?

Also a page ref for queestions even remptely like this would be nice, if it exists?

They don't. It's hyperbole.

She was actually quite tolerable, in my opinion, as I finally got around to reading my copy. She asks questions largely about somewhat obscure events, or events that are so different from what a child growing up in a corp in the 60s would ever experience that they're downright alien to her, so she asks how the people involved could handle them.

She mostly just offends people due to her lack of social graces, more than her ignorance (in text, that is...), and while she is the most common "huh?" character in the text, she isn't the only one, and isn't there for every question.

Considering the way public schooling has been taken out back and shot in general in Shadowrun, and doubly so for corp schools' versions of history, her ignorance on certain events is QUITE plausible. And as for the Deus thing, I imagine that she isn't working for Renraku; perhaps her corp makes sure to point out how foolish and ignorant their competition is at any available moment? And we don't know WHEN she wrote the report...it could well be after AI existence has become more "the latest hot thing" and less "whatthefuuuuuuck" in the public sphere.

Not to mention, we don't actually know how ACCURATE her report on the arcology shutdown and the events inside and behind it were. For all we know, it was rather radically different than the reality.

The only real issue with her would be the "why was she invited onto Jackpoint" thing, and that's pretty easily answerable with "because Jack invited her, and the ways of Jack are mysterious and unfathomable". If anyone got too strident with their questioning of it on the board, the mod(jack)hammer might have come down on them. We don't know.

I know this much: I find her way more tolerable than Mr. Drake Sunglassesandkatanasatnight. Let's not bring up SR's history of outstanding canon character creation.

[Blade]

We actually don't know exactly how/why exactly people are invited to Jackpoint. It could just be because they live in the Shadows and have a foot fetish (according to the latest books).

[ggodo]

I don't want to play Footrun. . .

[ravensmuse]

Could you give a page ref where this info of her not knowing AAA:s history can be found?

I don't remember. I don't own the book, so I can't look it up.

What I do remember is that it was in the history section, and someone says something to the effect of, "remember? This is what I was explaining to you last week." It was so head-pattingly condescending I balked.

Also a page ref for queestions even remptely like this would be nice, if it exists?

In the end, does it really matter? It's the impression I took away from a character. Apparently, others did as well. It's not some rule that you can then dissect in its minutae and then present to me knowingly, saying, "empirically, you're wrong." It was a feeling I got from a character that apparently the writer didn't have a handle on.

I again state that I did not find her annoying at all in Attitude, and actually found her section at the end more interesting than most of the rest of the book. She reminded me of some friends I had when I ran a chatroom on dA, right down to the horrible misspellings.

This whole "SHOW ME WHERE IN THE BOOK YOU FOUND THIS" is a little Randall for my tastes, thanks.

[Aaron]

One of the first things I teach my students is to look things up. Teenagers have had a (teenage) lifetime of dependence on adults, so much so that their first instinct is to ask questions. Adults then either teach them to look stuff up themselves in good sources, look stuff up in bad sources (like skewed Sixth-World corp-sponsored online "encyclopedias"), or just shut up.

You might be surprised at the capabilities of teens.

[Mäx]

What I do remember is that it was in the history section, and someone says something to the effect of, "remember? This is what I was explaining to you last week." It was so head-pattingly condescending I balked.

You meant this one, after the article talking about Japanese soldiers evicting metahumans from their home in San Fran:
"Remember that conversation we had the other day grrl? I told you never trust
the Japanese.
> Butch
> Yeah, I thought you were making that up. They actually evicted people and gave
their homes and belongings to the soldiers? That’s nuts.
> /dev/grrl"

While the wording is much different, it does give me a totally different kind of image then the wording you used, witch i have to admit would have made facepalm to grrl.

This whole "SHOW ME WHERE IN THE BOOK YOU FOUND THIS" is a little Randall for my tastes, thanks.

Well if those thinks actually where in the game, it would have made me much better to understand where you guys where coming from and migh have made me even agree with you.

[CanRay]

That harkens back to her Corporate Upbringing, especially if she's from one of the JapanaCorps. Brain Washing from birth is hard to get away from.

Just ask someone in the US how likely they'd vote for the Communist Party. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)