A couple of negative qualities, I thought they were missing, so I made 'em up! Options

[noonesshowmonkey]

Critique the wording and mechanics, PLEASE! (But be polite! <3)

Out of Towner
Bonus: 5 BP
For whatever reason, the character has recently moved to the current setting, having left behind everything and everyone he knew. As a result, the character is subject to a -3 dice pool penalty to local knowledge checks, and may not take local contacts at a Loyalty rating greater than 1 or a Connection rating greater than 3.

Fresh Off the Boat
Bonus: 15 BP
Having just arrived in the current setting from lands afar, the character is like a fish out of water. They do not know the local customs, habits, or maybe even the language. The character may not begin play with any local or area knowledge relevant to the setting, nor any contacts located in the setting. Contacts from their host country function as Connection 1, regardless of their standard Connection rating. Finally, the character is subject to a -3 dice pool penalty to all Active or Knowledge skills relying on local information – from Etiquette tests with the local color to Navigation checks to keep from getting lost to Knowledge checks.

Current versions:

Out of Towner
Bonus: 5 BP
For whatever reason, the character has recently moved to the current setting, having left behind everything and everyone he knew. As a result, the cost for learning or improving local or area knowledge skills relative to the current setting is twice normal.

Fresh Off the Boat
Bonus: 15 BP
Having just arrived in the current setting from lands afar, the character is like a fish out of water. They do not know the local customs, habits, or maybe even the language. The character may not begin play with any local or area knowledge relevant to the setting, nor any contacts located in the setting. Due to the distances involved, contacts from the host country make all checks with a -2 dice pool penalty. Finally, the character is subject to a -2 dice pool penalty to all Active or Knowledge skills relying on local information - from Etiquette tests with the local color to Navigation checks to keep from getting lost to Knowledge checks.

[Adarael]

Out of Towner: Make that a -2. -3 is enough to cripple an average person using basic data search software. -3 is a TON. Also, waive the loyalty/connection caps on contacts that live elsewhere.

[Makki]

I can't see getting bonus points for something I already accounted for.
out of towner is a very common background and i usually reflect this by not taking local knowledge and contacts.

why would I get additional BP for not using BP in the first place?

[Achsin]

I agree with Makki for the Out of Towner quality, but I like the Fresh Off The Boat one, maybe at only a +10 though, or as a progressive bonus (+5/level) with increasing restrictions/penalties.

Also,
I was working on an alternative for the Infirm quality, Couch Potato. -1 to all Combat and Physical Skills linked to physical attributes, Halve all times for fatigue. Any ideas for a fair BP bonus?

[noonesshowmonkey]

I can't see getting bonus points for something I already accounted for.
out of towner is a very common background and i usually reflect this by not taking local knowledge and contacts.

why would I get additional BP for not using BP in the first place?

Out of Towner lets you create characters that still know people, plausibly even people that are powerful in their own right, but that just don't have any pull in wherever you currently are. I once played a game (of Cthulhu, but whatever) where my character was a Chicago hit-man who got fed up, called in all his favors for a Model-T and drove out to LA but only made it to San Fran. He knew people, connected people, but they were of limited use in his current locale. Doesn't mean that the character shouldn't have those contacts at all.

So, in effect, this lets players spend BP on contacts that they should have - ie 5 free ones - would otherwise just skip.

[X-Kalibur]

I was expecting a new negative quality called Bi-Winning.

[Ol' Scratch]

Neither of these seem to be valid Qualities in my opinion. They're reflected perfectly fine by making basic decisions in the character creation process. Local (City) Knowledge should simply be given a low value, and most Contacts should be out of town with maybe one or two local ones with a low Loyalty. Same goes for Etiquette by taking a specialization appropriate to your homeland.

If the players later travel to some new city or country, they're suffering the penalties anyway. So there's no need to double it up by adding a crippling Quality on top of it, either thematically or logically. In fact, it's the whole point in being able to choose your stats to begin with.

[CanRay]

Why is Niko Bellic coming to mind?

[Mongoose]

I was working on an alternative for the Infirm quality, Couch Potato. -1 to all Combat and Physical Skills linked to physical attributes, Halve all times for fatigue. Any ideas for a fair BP bonus?

Maybe 5 points, but its debatable that you should even use it. Its not a big penalty (-1 is minimal, and fatigue is uncommon) to begin with, and would mostly be taken by mages, hackers, and other folks who don't much need combat skills- and for whom it should be worth 0 points. Worse, it leads to the odd results that being a couch potato would HURT your gunnery skill (used to control rigged vehicle weapons, so totally non-physical); you'd think a game-playing drone decker would get LOTS of practice with that skill.

If you want to model a couch potato, just take something like an addiction to online gaming, and don't pump up physical stats. That much better simulates somebody who wastes the day sitting around. There's nothing stopping a couch potato from developing into a superb physical specimin with excellent skills except his lack of effort at such development; thus, having low skills (rather than penalized skills) and stat is the way to go.

[noonesshowmonkey]

Neither of these seem to be valid Qualities in my opinion. They're reflected perfectly fine by making basic decisions in the character creation process. Local (City) Knowledge should simply be given a low value, and most Contacts should be out of town with maybe one or two local ones with a low Loyalty. Same goes for Etiquette by taking a specialization appropriate to your homeland.

If the players later travel to some new city or country, they're suffering the penalties anyway. So there's no need to double it up by adding a crippling Quality on top of it, either thematically or logically. In fact, it's the whole point in being able to choose your stats to begin with.

How are these any less valid than Runner's Companion's Hung Out to Dry or Dependent?

Why can't I just make a few choices in character creation to reflect those? I can take zero contacts as all of my old ones have ditched me and I can spend karma 're-earning' them, redeeming myself as per the description.

Why do I need a quality for having an RP relationship with my family? Can't I just decide that I want to complicate my character's life without having to get BP for it?

[noonesshowmonkey]

Out of Towner: Make that a -2. -3 is enough to cripple an average person using basic data search software. -3 is a TON. Also, waive the loyalty/connection caps on contacts that live elsewhere.

-2 DP sounds reasonable. I'll drop it down.

Out of Towner, as I have it written out, has no penalty on your Out of Town contacts. Only your local contacts are limited in their starting Connection and Loyalty.

Fresh Off the Boat limits the Connection ratings of your over-seas / out of country contacts because, as much pull as they may have in their own town, you aren't in Kansas anymore.

[Achsin]

Worse, it leads to the odd results that being a couch potato would HURT your gunnery skill (used to control rigged vehicle weapons, so totally non-physical); you'd think a game-playing drone decker would get LOTS of practice with that skill.

From what I can see, Gunnery is neither a combat nor a physical skill, it's a vehicle skill, so it would not be affected by this quality.

I can see your point though, but as I said, I'm trying to come up with a replacement quality for infirm, thinking of making something of an antithesis of the Natural Athlete and Catlike qualities.

[Mr Clock]

In theory, a straight negative of the positive quality should work out nicely. If it looks bent, consider dropping the points by one level (usually 5) or increase the penalties by a die.

Regarding Catlike and Natural Athlete, Catlike demands a minimum skill rating of 2, NA does not. Both count against the maximum modified skill cap, both give +1 dice to two skills for ten Build Points. My mind jumps back to Incompetent and all the cautions related to it. If you're happy to have characters with Incompetent, I see no reason to block these others outright.

[Fatum]

How are these any less valid than Runner's Companion's Hung Out to Dry or Dependent?

Why can't I just make a few choices in character creation to reflect those? I can take zero contacts as all of my old ones have ditched me and I can spend karma 're-earning' them, redeeming myself as per the description.

Why do I need a quality for having an RP relationship with my family? Can't I just decide that I want to complicate my character's life without having to get BP for it?

Because, unlike with the qualities you suggest, you get the complications that are not covered by the rest of the character creation process. It's like saying "let's make a negative quality that limits your weapon skill - a quality that costs BP!". Now, if the negative qualities did not prohibit, but rather raised the costs for certain things, I believe they'd be much more balanced (representing the complications of getting a contact on the other side of the world).

Fresh Off the Boat limits the Connection ratings of your over-seas / out of country contacts because, as much pull as they may have in their own town, you aren't in Kansas anymore.

Ahem, if you read the description, Rating 6 is worldwide connections and influence. You'd think limiting that to Rating 1 in the current setting is a bit too restrictive.

[Makki]

Fatum is right.
Make it similar to Infirm/Uncouth:

Out of Towner
5BP
Local Connections and local Knowledge Skills cost twice. At Chargen and at character improvement, as long as the quality has not been bought off.

[noonesshowmonkey]

Fatum is right.
Make it similar to Infirm/Uncouth:

Out of Towner
5BP
Local Connections and local Knowledge Skills cost twice. At Chargen and at character improvement, as long as the quality has not been bought off.

I like it. Done.

New versions (changes in italics):

Out of Towner
Bonus: 5 BP
For whatever reason, the character has recently moved to the current setting, having left behind everything and everyone he knew. As a result, the cost for learning or improving local or area knowledge skills relative to the current setting is twice normal.

Fresh Off the Boat
Bonus: 15 BP
Having just arrived in the current setting from lands afar, the character is quite literally a fish out of water. They do not know the local customs, habits, or maybe even the language. The character may not begin play with any local or area knowledge relevant to the setting, nor any contacts located in the setting. Due to the distances involved, contacts from the host country make all checks with a -2 dice pool penalty. Finally, the character is subject to a -2 dice pool penalty to all Active or Knowledge skills relying on local information - from Etiquette tests with the local color to Navigation checks to keep from getting lost to Knowledge checks.

[noonesshowmonkey]

Because, unlike with the qualities you suggest, you get the complications that are not covered by the rest of the character creation process.

...

Ahem, if you read the description, Rating 6 is worldwide connections and influence. You'd think limiting that to Rating 1 in the current setting is a bit too restrictive.

To be fair, Character Generation does not provide mechanical resolution for a ton of possible complications. I think that being an Out of Towner - conceptually someone who arrived yesterday - is every bit as much of a complication worthy of points (and not addressed by just not taking skills) as some of the other negative qualities.

Also, I am fully aware that Connection Rating 6 is worldwide clout. Fresh Off the Boat is specifically for instances where your character has entered a new country and locale where their network is either not fully established, out of power in the local areas or the character has recently burned them in some capacity. Being Fresh Off the Boat in this case means that, no matter who you knew in The Olde Country, you are on your own here.

I did, however, rewrite the section about limited Connection to put dice pool penalties in place, rather than a hard dice pool limit. Practically, hard limiting to 1 Connection would drop 5 dice from a Connection 6 contact while a constant dice pool limit will take Connection 1 contacts and make them almost utterly useless. Either way has its merits, but I think that the edited version is cleaner.

[Fatum]

Frankly, I like the qualities now. Seem usable, and fully representing what they're meant to.

[Bodak]

Fresh Off the Boat
Bonus: 15 BP
Having just arrived in the current setting from lands afar, the character is quite literally a fish out of water.

It looks like you edited that and didn't proof-read it afterward. I very much doubt you mean that taking this flaw turns the character into a literal fish (albeit out of water). You probably meant "quite figuratively" rather than "quite literally". I'd definitely correct that wording before handing it to players or else RAW lawyers would be using it to gain 15bp and become fish in the process... fish with SINs, language skills, weaponry, lifestyles, and the ability to surive out of water (because you explicitly refer to the character being a literal fish). Not good!

[CanRay]

Now I want to make Niko Bellic.

[noonesshowmonkey]

It looks like you edited that and didn't proof-read it afterward. I very much doubt you mean that taking this flaw turns the character into a literal fish (albeit out of water). You probably meant "quite figuratively" rather than "quite literally". I'd definitely correct that wording before handing it to players or else RAW lawyers would be using it to gain 15bp and become fish in the process... fish with SINs, language skills, weaponry, lifestyles, and the ability to surive out of water (because you explicitly refer to the character being a literal fish). Not good!

Bahahaha.

Derp.

I'll fix that.