Specializations, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Options

[Socinus]

I was browsing through some of the specializations listed in the core book and I'm...confused.

Where on earth would some of these be useful?

Disguise (Trideo)
Throwing Weapon- Virtually all the specs are far too specialized to be really useful
Parachuting- Same problem
Gymnastics (Dance)
Medicine (Organ Culture)
Etc etc.

It seems like the vast majority of the specializations are just too focused to be of any real use.

I can see doing something or taking a certain skill for story or flavor, but I'm just bewildered as to why anyone would sink Karma into a specialization that will come into play once, maybe twice if you're lucky.

[CanRay]

Disguise: Trideo is used for make-up when getting ready for the Trid. If you're a newsman for a Pirate News Broadcaster, it's needed. One of my PCs has Filmmaking as a Knowledge Skill.

Gymnastics: Dance is useful when blending in with the higher ups, or lower downs. See "Shindig" episode of Firefly, or some of The Invisibles Comics.

Medicine: Organ Culture is used for growing organs. Really important if you're in charge of organ farms, getting those Type-Os needed for replacement surgeries.

Really, the first two I suggested are good for PCs to take, maybe as background skills, or to help blend in with whatever group they're dealing with. (Dance could be vitally important for a Face at one time or another! Especially if he's at a Rave. "Samurai Jack" had to improvise, and did a damned good job of it!).

Organ Culture is good for NPCs.

Parachuting Specialties can come into play rarely, as most games are in a city, but there are times you gotta just jump out of that helo, and thank $Deity that you have it. But Mercs would love HALO.

Throwing Weapon... Meh. Some people would rather just have Grenade or Knives. Everything else is secondary.

[Fatum]

Minding that specializations listed are just suggested examples, really, I fail to see the problem with them.

[Yerameyahu]

I dunno what you're talking about for the Throwing ones, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Lob and overhand are too broad, not too narrow.

It's true that specializations tend to be either abusively broad or unappealingly narrow. *shrug* Not the best system.

[Fatum]

It's true that specializations tend to be either abusively broad or unappealingly narrow. *shrug* Not the best system.

Bah. Frankly, Shadowrun has some very solid core mechanics, it's minutia like this which is spoiling the fun with how poorly it's thought through sometimes.
Don't even get me started on rule wordings.

[Yerameyahu]

Sure. I meant that the specializations aren't the best system, not that the system is systemically bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Makki]

I appreciate a good spec.
There was a thread once, about new creative specs: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=19609&hl
although RAW doesn't say, that you may actually invent new specs other than those in the corebook.

I still have to find a GM to allow my MacGyver spec Escapte Artist (hopeless plight)

[spica2501]

Minding that specializations listed are just suggested examples, really, I fail to see the problem with them.

This.

For example, I like to have my pistols specialization be Heavy Pistols rather than the listed Semiautomatics. Sure semiautos are more inclusive, but I like to use a Super Warhawk from time to time.

[phlapjack77]

I dunno what you're talking about for the Throwing ones, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Lob and overhand are too broad, not too narrow.

It's true that specializations tend to be either abusively broad or unappealingly narrow. *shrug* Not the best system.

Bring back the skill web! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Agreed, spica2501. Some of the suggestions are just odd, especially when there are natural categories right there in the mechanic already (Heavy Pistols, etc.).

Personally, I was fine with 4(6) specializations. None of this '+2 applies to both hands, mwa ha!' munchkinry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jhaiisiin]

Bring back the skill web! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Quiet you! That way lies madness! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[Critias]

Also, keep in mind not every specialization necessarily has to be useful for PC's, or ruthlessly efficient for shadowrunning. Sometimes a spec is just a spec.

[SpellBinder]

This.

For example, I like to have my pistols specialization be Heavy Pistols rather than the listed Semiautomatics. Sure semiautos are more inclusive, but I like to use a Super Warhawk from time to time.

If the weapon modification rules in Arsenal are available in your game, just add a Firing Selection Change mod. One slot, 300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , and your Super Warhawk is now semiautomatic.

But when it comes to some of the suggestions for specializations, I'll agree that some of them seem clunky and odd. But then I also remind myself of the same stuff that Critias posted.

[Epicedion]

I'd rather make people specialize with one damn gun/motorcycle/whatever. Specialize in "Ares Predator" or "Dodge Scoot." Specializations are too cheap and beneficial to be broad.

[Stahlseele]

Well, Pilot:Groundcraft < = you know physics, you know the basics of how ANYTHING on the ground moves.
Now you can specialize in tracked or wheeled. because they are different from each other.

[Mäx]

If the weapon modification rules in Arsenal are available in your game, just add a Firing Selection Change mod. One slot, 300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , and your Super Warhawk is now semiautomatic.

It may have semi auto firing mode, but its still a revolver, not a semi-automatic pistol

[phlapjack77]

I'd rather make people specialize with one damn gun/motorcycle/whatever. Specialize in "Ares Predator" or "Dodge Scoot." Specializations are too cheap and beneficial to be broad.

I agree totally

...and this idea also goes much better with...the skill web (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Epicedion]

Well, Pilot:Groundcraft < = you know physics, you know the basics of how ANYTHING on the ground moves.
Now you can specialize in tracked or wheeled. because they are different from each other.

I'd still rather see a specialization look more like: Pilot Ground Craft (GMC Bulldog Step-Van +2).

It encourages style.

[Epicedion]

I agree totally

...and this idea also goes much better with...the skill web (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well the skill web's not necessary really, with the way defaulting works right now.

My primary concern is that you can buy a specialization for so cheap and with no penalty (as opposed to losing a point in the main skill to gain a point in the specialty) that you'd pretty well be stupid not to specialize in something like "First Aid (Combat Wounds)."

Let's see.. do you plan to use First Aid? Yes. Do you ever expect to use First Aid for anything other than combat wounds? No! Sure, get +2 dice on every single roll you'll ever make with First Aid ever.

What you need to do is make sure that specializations only assist in a single kind of roll, or a specific model of equipment.

Spellcasting (Combat Spells)? No. Spellcasting (Manaball).

[phlapjack77]

Well the skill web's not necessary really, with the way defaulting works right now.

My primary concern is that you can buy a specialization for so cheap and with no penalty (as opposed to losing a point in the main skill to gain a point in the specialty) that you'd pretty well be stupid not to specialize in something like "First Aid (Combat Wounds)."

Let's see.. do you plan to use First Aid? Yes. Do you ever expect to use First Aid for anything other than combat wounds? No! Sure, get +2 dice on every single roll you'll ever make with First Aid ever.

What you need to do is make sure that specializations only assist in a single kind of roll, or a specific model of equipment.

Spellcasting (Combat Spells)? No. Spellcasting (Manaball).

I agree with your points about specialization.

But jokes aside, the skill web...to me, just makes sense. Defaulting right now? It just uses base stat - 1 die. No matter if you're trying to fire a shotgun, but you "only" have the automatics skill. Ok, yeah, it seems most of my problems are around how the firearms skills are broken out. Combat skills in general, really. And piloting skills. And some social skills. And some of the technical skills. But still (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Aerospider]

Well the skill web's not necessary really, with the way defaulting works right now.

My primary concern is that you can buy a specialization for so cheap and with no penalty (as opposed to losing a point in the main skill to gain a point in the specialty) that you'd pretty well be stupid not to specialize in something like "First Aid (Combat Wounds)."

Let's see.. do you plan to use First Aid? Yes. Do you ever expect to use First Aid for anything other than combat wounds? No! Sure, get +2 dice on every single roll you'll ever make with First Aid ever.

What you need to do is make sure that specializations only assist in a single kind of roll, or a specific model of equipment.

Spellcasting (Combat Spells)? No. Spellcasting (Manaball).

There are plenty of other foreseeable uses of First Aid. I'm AFB, but what about diagnosis, toxins, diseases, stabilisation and all the types of damage that don't fit the 'combat' descriptor? There's falling, dumpshock, vehicle crashes, demolitions, elemental effects (I wouldn't even class tasers as inflicting combat wounds), gas inhalation, fatigue and all kinds of accidents you could suffer.

[Epicedion]

There are plenty of other foreseeable uses of First Aid. I'm AFB, but what about diagnosis, toxins, diseases, stabilisation and all the types of damage that don't fit the 'combat' descriptor? There's falling, dumpshock, vehicle crashes, demolitions, elemental effects (I wouldn't even class tasers as inflicting combat wounds), gas inhalation, fatigue and all kinds of accidents you could suffer.

A) I don't think I'd let anyone use First Aid to treat dumpshock, gas inhalation, fatigue, disease, poison, or electrical stuns

B) It was just an example of a specialization that covers the majority of uses of a skill

C) First Aid used to be a specialty of Biotech

[Aerospider]

A) I don't think I'd let anyone use First Aid to treat dumpshock, gas inhalation, fatigue, disease, poison, or electrical stuns

B) It was just an example of a specialization that covers the majority of uses of a skill

C) First Aid used to be a specialty of Biotech

How about damage from a stunbolt or manabolt?
And would you count them as 'combat damage'?

How about damage that is essentially the same as what you might suffer in combat but not actually suffered in combat, like a cut from barbed wire or a broken limb from falling? Would the specialisation work just as well for them?

[Genuine questions – no rhetoric or facetiousness]

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I had a Jaguar shapeshifter with First Aid (Toxins), because really, healing bullet wounds is easy, not so much a Naga bite... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Mr Clock]

Regarding the Parachuting, it makes me think of a training montage in a TV show where they learn a new skill, use it once, and never mention it again. Learning skill to level 1, purchase specialization, three dice plus attribute. Done.