Guard Power Options

[Machiavelli]

Guard prevents from glitching. So far, so good. But how does it exactly work? Does it simply switch a critical glitch to a normal glitch and a normal glitch to a success? Does it have any limitations or is a force 1 spirit sufficient? Is there any specific ruling on that?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Guard prevents from glitching. So far, so good. But how does it exactly work? Does it simply switch a critical glitch to a normal glitch and a normal glitch to a success? Does it have any limitations or is a force 1 spirit sufficient? Is there any specific ruling on that?

It prevents Glitches, so No Glitch or Critical Glitch is possible while protected by Guard. At least, that is how I understand it. Does not matter the Force of the Spirit either from what I remember.

Guard also protects against environmental dangers as well... Sunstroke in the Desert, etc.

[Machiavelli]

But you also didn´t see a more detailed description of this power, dont you?

[toturi]

But you also didn´t see a more detailed description of this power, dont you?

I am not sure I take your meaning. What exactly do you want to do with the Guard power? If it is just a description of how Guard works by preventing Glitches, I think you can simply come up with any number of ways to show how Guard prevented a glitch. Perhaps instead of an EX-EX round exploding while in the weapon, it discharged harmlessly in midflight.

[Makki]

paying your local magical services contractor or the rat shaman around the street to long-term bind a F1 spirit sounds like a very decent idea. no glitching for 1 year and 1 day for 2500 cash and 1 Karma.
hell, the group's mage can just assign one per spirit to every group member. There seems no limit on how many spirits one conjurer may long-term bind

[Machiavelli]

I am not sure I take your meaning. What exactly do you want to do with the Guard power? If it is just a description of how Guard works by preventing Glitches, I think you can simply come up with any number of ways to show how Guard prevented a glitch. Perhaps instead of an EX-EX round exploding while in the weapon, it discharged harmlessly in midflight.

I have a very nitpicking GM and i already know that he is going to discuss over this. So if there is somewhere a reference more detailed than "prevents glitches" it would be very handy for me. This was basically the question. I simply don´t want to discuss about "you need a force x spirit to negate THIS glitch" or "it says it prevents glitches, not CRITICAL glitches" and so on....and on...and probably on...^^

[Summerstorm]

Also a Force 1 Spirit and its powers are too easy to pop. Just a teeny bit background count and you lose the protection... and i guess the spirit has to come to you to renew it then.

Since a BC of 2 and even 3 is not really that rare a Force 4 sprit is pretty much obliguatory. Also the spirit needs to be able to reuse the power on you, or not? For example you go through a ward rating 6... would the power be able to skip with you into it? I know... per RAW a power is not a spell (which many people are made painfully aware of by getting told: no counterspelling MUHAHAHA), but shouldn't wards and astral barriers take the power out when crossed.

Depends on it... the mana for the power comes through the metaplanes... but does it always and without fail FINDS the recipient?

[Pyritefoolsgold]

Also a spirit following you around is the opposite of inconspicuous to any astral observer. And checking the guard power, the spirit has to have astral LOS on you for the power to work. That means the spirit has to follow through any astral barriers or wards to continue providing it. Which means that based on standing orders from the mage, the spirit would either wait outside of such areas and renew guarding when you leave them, or try to break through any intervening wards.

[Fringe]

I have a very nitpicking GM and i already know that he is going to discuss over this. So if there is somewhere a reference more detailed than "prevents glitches" it would be very handy for me. This was basically the question. I simply don´t want to discuss about "you need a force x spirit to negate THIS glitch" or "it says it prevents glitches, not CRITICAL glitches" and so on....and on...and probably on...^^

"The Guard power can also be used to prevent a glitch from occurring. Guard may be used on a number of characters at once equal to the critter’s Magic attribute" (Running Wild, p. 212). Duration is Sustained, so it's a lasting effect, not just a one-shot deal. The only part of this power that scales with Force is the number of beings the spirit can protect at the same time. As Pyrite points out, though, the spirit must have LOS to every being it is Guarding.

and

"If a character rolls a glitch and scores zero hits, then she has made a critical glitch" (SR4A, p. 62). A critical glitch requires both zero hits and a glitch.

If you're protected by a spirit's Guard power, it prevents a glitch from occurring. If a glitch cannot occur, a critical glitch also cannot occur.

[Machiavelli]

If a glitch cannot occur, a critical glitch also cannot occur.

That sounds reasonable...thank you.^^

[Raven the Tricks...]

Is there somewhere where spirits are different with regards to sustained actions than mages? Because as far as I understand it, targets of a sustained spell only have to be in los for the initial casting. Wouldn't spirit powers be similar?

[Fringe]

Is there somewhere where spirits are different with regards to sustained actions than mages? Because as far as I understand it, targets of a sustained spell only have to be in los for the initial casting. Wouldn't spirit powers be similar?

Actually, you're right. Critters and spirits do not have to maintain LOS. (I've edited my previous post accordingly.)

"Sustained powers may be maintained over time at no effort or cost. Because these powers are innate, the critter is not subject to any strain or modifiers for keeping the effect going. Even taking damage will not disrupt these powers’ ability to sustain. Also, line of sight does not have to be maintained after the power takes hold of its target. Critters may sustain a number of powers equal to their Magic at one time" (Running Wild, p. 204).

[CanRay]

...

I'm going to have to go pet shopping.

[Epicedion]

paying your local magical services contractor or the rat shaman around the street to long-term bind a F1 spirit sounds like a very decent idea. no glitching for 1 year and 1 day for 2500 cash and 1 Karma.
hell, the group's mage can just assign one per spirit to every group member. There seems no limit on how many spirits one conjurer may long-term bind

You can only have Charisma number of spirits bound at any one time. I don't think any mage is going to sell that slot for that little for a whole year.

[Jhaiisiin]

Does a spirit on remote service for you still count against your bound limit? After all, you can no longer control it. That would say to me that it's not bound to you anymore...

[Epicedion]

Does a spirit on remote service for you still count against your bound limit? After all, you can no longer control it. That would say to me that it's not bound to you anymore...

A bound spirit that goes on remote service is still bound, and will return to standby after it's finished with its task.

An unbound spirit is released and doesn't count anymore, but will vanish at sunup/sundown.

[Fringe]

"A conjurer can semi-permanently assign a bound spirit to a service or set of services by paying Karma equal to its Force. Once bound with Karma, the spirit no longer counts against the magician’s bound spirit limit and any remaining services are lost" (Street Magic, p. 94).

So the long-term binding frees up the bound spirit slot, but at the cost of Karma. I doubt you'll find too many mages willing to give up Karma without some serious motivation, unless your GM allows some kind of Nuyen-to-Karma exchange.

[CanRay]

Here's the spirit I use to suggest those offers. So far, no one has taken me up on it.

[Epicedion]

"A conjurer can semi-permanently assign a bound spirit to a service or set of services by paying Karma equal to its Force. Once bound with Karma, the spirit no longer counts against the magician’s bound spirit limit and any remaining services are lost" (Street Magic, p. 94).

So the long-term binding frees up the bound spirit slot, but at the cost of Karma. I doubt you'll find too many mages willing to give up Karma without some serious motivation, unless your GM allows some kind of Nuyen-to-Karma exchange.

I see. Yeah, I doubt many magicians would take anyone up on that offer except for really high fees.

And then there's the added problem of the spirit being stuck on the remote service. It's not a loaner, so you can't order around the spirit after the command is given. It performs one task, and that task is likely to be "follow this guy around and maintain Guard on him." If you take the wrong kind of plane ride or walk through an astral barrier, that spirit isn't going to stop and just wait on you to come back -- it's going to try to follow, and probably get disrupted unless it's really powerful. And really powerful = more karma = super-high prices.

So I guess that yes, you can do this. It's probably just a really awful waste of resources.

[TheOOB]

The protection from natural hazards part can be pretty useful itself. Not drowing in water, noting getting stung/bitten in a jungle, going through brambles without a scratch, no frostbite in the arctic, no damage from a sandstorm, ect. Guard is a very very useful power.

[Mr Clock]

Not drowning...hmms. I can see not drowning at sea, or in a river. If you get trapped in the wrong bit of the sewers with pressure building up underneath you and nowhere to go, you drown, power or no. Aside from such circumstances, very useful.

Now, does the power extend to your gear? Survive the sandstorm with your Ares Alpha in perfect working order, or does it need a two hour clean and fresh lenses for the smartgun scope?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You can only have Charisma number of spirits bound at any one time. I don't think any mage is going to sell that slot for that little for a whole year.

Long term binding does not count towards your Bound Spirits Limit. It costs Karma Instead... In this case, 1 per Runner.
And Spirits that are on a Long Term Binding Service will return to such service if Disrupted, once their Time on the Metaplanes has expired (28 Days - Force). Long term Binding is very, Very Useful.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Not drowning...hmms. I can see not drowning at sea, or in a river. If you get trapped in the wrong bit of the sewers with pressure building up underneath you and nowhere to go, you drown, power or no. Aside from such circumstances, very useful.

Now, does the power extend to your gear? Survive the sandstorm with your Ares Alpha in perfect working order, or does it need a two hour clean and fresh lenses for the smartgun scope?

I would go with your gear benefiting as well. Until said gear becomes unreasonable.

[Makki]

So the long-term binding frees up the bound spirit slot, but at the cost of Karma. I doubt you'll find too many mages willing to give up Karma without some serious motivation, unless your GM allows some kind of Nuyen-to-Karma exchange.

by the rules of SM, a PC can pay Karma directly to a NPC Free Spirit. So why can't a PC pay Karma to a NPC Mage?

[Fortinbras]

The protection from natural hazards part can be pretty useful itself. Not drowing in water, noting getting stung/bitten in a jungle, going through brambles without a scratch, no frostbite in the arctic, no damage from a sandstorm, ect. Guard is a very very useful power.

I think you're interpretation of "natural hazard" might be different than what the book is suggesting. I think, due to the nature of glitches, what they are referring to is hazards that occur naturally, like accidentally falling down a manhole; not things in nature that are hazardous, like drowning. Think of it the way someone from the Enlightenment would refer to nature, and not how someone from the Sierra Club would refer to nature.

by the rules of SM, a PC can pay Karma directly to a NPC Free Spirit. So why can't a PC pay Karma to a NPC Mage?

Because it is a mechanical disconnect. It raises a million questions about the nature of Karma in the Sixth World(How would one go about transferring Karma? Is it measurable? How does one attain Karma from a non-Shadowrunning perceptive?) and brings the players to a place where they are not acting as people, but acting as a third party controlling an avatar with a set of numbers.