Spirits and Dart Pistols Options

[KarmaInferno]

i generally go with "could it hurt a rock?"

If you spray a substance on a rock and it damages the rock, it can probably damage a spirit.



-k

[Prime Mover]

i generally go with "could it hurt a rock?"

If you spray a substance on a rock and it damages the rock, it can probably damage a spirit.



-k

This is probably the most concise post in this topic. I like it.

[Seth]

So the rules on spirits are fairly clear. Spirits are quite hard: and I think thats a good thing. If you find a "spirit-o-cide" that kills all known spirits dead, you loose the fact the spirits are hard.

So do you want spirits to be hard or not?

• If you want them to be hard the current rules are OK.
• If you want them not to be hard introduce spirit repelling spray, spirit killing chemicals, and generally turn them into poodles. Go do it.

In RAW spirits are pretty hard, and there is no "spirit-o-cide".

The fluff is OK. It isn't perfect: for example if insectocide gets insect spirits then herbicides should get plant spirits. There are not many discrepancies however.

So just pick what you want. RAW is pretty clear though

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So the rules on spirits are fairly clear. Spirits are quite hard: and I think thats a good thing. If you find a "spirit-o-cide" that kills all known spirits dead, you loose the fact the spirits are hard.

So do you want spirits to be hard or not?

• If you want them to be hard the current rules are OK.
• If you want them not to be hard introduce spirit repelling spray, spirit killing chemicals, and generally turn them into poodles. Go do it.

In RAW spirits are pretty hard, and there is no "spirit-o-cide".

The fluff is OK. It isn't perfect: for example if insectocide gets insect spirits then herbicides should get plant spirits. There are not many discrepancies however.

So just pick what you want. RAW is pretty clear though

Except that Spirits are not really all that Hard...

[Seth]

Except that Spirits are not really all that Hard...

I guess that depends on your power-level. I find force 5 spirits pretty damm hard, and force 7 spirits can wipe out a small squad.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I guess that depends on your power-level. I find force 5 spirits pretty damm hard, and force 7 spirits can wipe out a small squad.

Well, Force 5 Spirits (which are somewhat uncommon at our table) are Susceptible to SnS rounds by RAW (Electrical Damage after all), and so are not really a threat... Force 7+ (which are exceedingly rare in our games) are indeed very difficult unless you are packing much heavier hardware...

[James McMurray]

If you're using SnS ammo as written even Force 7+ spirits aren't that big of a threat. Almost any hit with SnS will penetrate a Force 7 spirit's ItNW, and you only need one more hit for every added Force on the spirit. So a Force 10 spirit can be hurt by SnS + 5 net hits, which is definitely doable by a maxed out starting level street sam, especially if he spends Edge. It's even easier with a wide burst, which you might as well use unless your dice pool is pretty small, since the full burst won't help you penetrate.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

If you're using SnS ammo as written even Force 7+ spirits aren't that big of a threat. Almost any hit with SnS will penetrate a Force 7 spirit's ItNW, and you only need one more hit for every added Force on the spirit. So a Force 10 spirit can be hurt by SnS + 5 net hits, which is definitely doable by a maxed out starting level street sam, especially if he spends Edge. It's even easier with a wide burst, which you might as well use unless your dice pool is pretty small, since the full burst won't help you penetrate.

Again, burst fire (of any type) do not count towards defeating ITNW...

[James McMurray]

Again, burst fire (of any type) do not count towards defeating ITNW...

What is your point? I didn't say that it did. I said to use a wide burst (i.e. - DV). Getting more net hits because they had fewer dodge dice will most definitely help.

[Seth]

I have never used stick and shock as I think it's totally broken (not so much for the killing spirits as for the taking out of people) I think its been poorly thought about because if it was that good no troops would use anything else. I don't mind tasers because while they are very powerful, they are typically single shot.

I think the statement that "with SnS even force 7 spirits aren't that big of a threat" is synonymous with "SnS is broken". It takes down humans even easier than spirits (the whole body+willpower(3) check and the minus 2 even if you make it).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

What is your point? I didn't say that it did. I said to use a wide burst (i.e. - DV). Getting more net hits because they had fewer dodge dice will most definitely help.

Sorry, Missed that particular bit of important information... My Apologies...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I have never used stick and shock as I think it's totally broken (not so much for the killing spirits as for the taking out of people) I think its been poorly thought about because if it was that good no troops would use anything else. I don't mind tasers because while they are very powerful, they are typically single shot.

I think the statement that "with SnS even force 7 spirits aren't that big of a threat" is synonymous with "SnS is broken". It takes down humans even easier than spirits (the whole body+willpower(3) check and the minus 2 even if you make it).

SnS is not that big of a threat really... The -2 Penalty is a nuissance more than anything else... I have yet to actually see a runner not make the Willpower + Body Check...

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, but how many can soak the tons of stun? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Besides, a -2 is a huge penalty for a *successful* resistance, given that a wound is only -1.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, but how many can soak the tons of stun? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Besides, a -2 is a huge penalty for a *successful* resistance, given that a wound is only -1.

Sure, I guess... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Of course, you could always rule that the secondary effect does not take effect if there is no Primary Effect. I actually kind of like that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Laodicea]

This is just another SnS vs. Spirits thread with a small twist. Can we be done with these threads all together for like a day?

[James McMurray]

This is just another SnS vs. Spirits thread with a small twist. Can we be done with these threads all together for like a day?

Nobody said you had to read it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

This is just another SnS vs. Spirits thread with a small twist. Can we be done with these threads all together for like a day?

No, it's a mandatory ritual that needs to be performed regularly.

[CanRay]

There's only one question I have about Spirits...

"Will it blend?"

[Cain]

The point of all this being, the rules are perfectly clear about what hurts a spirit and what doesn't. The question is, are chemical attacks sufficiently non-normal enough to stop qualifying as Normal Weapons, for purposes of the spirit's Immunity? By RAW, Narcojet, acid, and toxic waste all hurt a spirit in a similar fashion to humans. The only question is, are they normal weapons, or abnormal ones?

[James McMurray]

Immunity to Normal Weapons provides an armor rating. Toxins don't care about armor rating.How does it matter how "normal" toxins are when it comes to determining if they affect spirits?

[Yerameyahu]

Ditto.

[Seth]

I think we covered this pretty properly up above. Spirits don't have a nervous system (thats RAW). Most drugs people have named affect the nervous system. Spirits aren't affected by most drugs QED.

[Stahlseele]

Spirits don't have skin. No Organs. Nothing which can be hurt by physical means. Like Swords and Bullets. Spirits can not be hurt by Swords and Bullets. QED.

[Yerameyahu]

Logic doesn't connect those statements.

[Stahlseele]

because it's fucking magic.
magic tells you the spirit has a body that resembles something living, so you can hurt it with everything including poisons and toxins.
because you think it is like that.