[X] My Assistant

[CanRay]

Actually, maybe he posted when his eyes were barely open. Or he was hurt, at the Street Doc's, and on the really good drugs.

Hard to get a good hate on when you're on the good stuff!

[imperialus]

Yeah, but bigotry is usually not something that just goes away.

Wonder what happened to Clockwork.

You know, aside from getting punched in the junk by everyone on the JackPoint.

It might not go away, but a lot of people hide it.

[Patrick Goodman]

What about someone who remembers watching Star Wars before it was "A New Hope" ?

Yeah, we're old.

Crap. My birthday's in, like, two weeks...and I'm not sure if I want to be 45.

[CanRay]

It might not go away, but a lot of people hide it.

He never has before, and he certainly won't be fooling a bunch of paranoid, anti-social, borderline sociopaths (With the exception of Kane, who is a full-bore sociopath and proud of it) if he suddenly "Turns over a new leaf.".

I'm thinking he was either on drugs when he posted (Or half-asleep), or we should see some fiction in the books explaining what happened.

And, honestly, it's ONE SHADOWTALK POSTING. Even I slip up and call a magazine a clip without choking down my own puke once in awhile.

[Doc Chase]

And, honestly, it's ONE SHADOWTALK POSTING. Even I slip up and call a magazine a clip without choking down my own puke once in awhile.

True, but going from a White-Nationalist "nuke from orbit to be sure" partisan to "anyone can fire a gun, mages and technos are special" is a pretty big flip-flop. Wonder if Netcat got bored and hacked his account. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Bull]

Fastjack slipped him a Reality Editor when he wasn't looking. It autotranslates his anti-techno ravings into calm, rational comments.

We need one of those for Dumpshock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull

[CanRay]

Oh, like the profanity filter from PS238. I love that thing!

CRUMPETS!

[hermit]

It autotranslates his anti-techno ravings into calm, rational comments.

I never got why anyone in SR should be that positive about AI and technomancers, not with that world's background. It's like real people saying "HELL YEAH NUCLEAR POWER IN MY CITY" everywhere. Clockwork's outlook was the only one that made sense. It took a lot less than 120.000 dead in a skyscraper disaster to make mainstream America hate muslims with a vengeance, to the point Obama's second name was used as an argument against electing him, even though it just incidentally was a name with vague islamic connotations.

[sabs]

Horizon has /fucking amazing/ PR.
Aztechnology good PR.

Additionally:
I think it makes sense for Fastjack to accept Technomancers (his daughter is probably one if she survived the Crash) Same with AI, Captain Chaos is an AI/E-Ghost now. Those guys were /tight/.
Like, Band of Brothers tight. Given that ShadowTalk is Fastjack's baby, it makes sense that over the years anti-technomancer talk has been gently pushed out. Fastjack likes NetCat.

[hermit]

Horizon has /fucking amazing/ PR.

I'd like to see it. Show, don't tell. Because otherwise this gets ridiculous.

I think it makes sense for Fastjack to accept Technomancers (his daughter is probably one if she survived the Crash) Same with AI, Captain Chaos is an AI/E-Ghost now. Those guys were /tight/.

Yeah, I can see that. I could accept JP as a haven for mancers. But the general world embracing them because Hollywood tells them to? Beg your pardon?

[sabs]

Horizon has BTL laced Matrix Programming that subtely gets you to buy more Coke-0. They use every dirty trick in the book to get people to believe what they sell them. Hollywood of today works hard at this, and they don't have access to people brains so directly. Aztechnology murders its own employees, they do blood sacrifices, but they're considered this golly gee swell corporation by pretty much the entire populace. Technomancers aren't all love and roses, they're wanted. There is a bounty on them. AI's.. yes Sojourner was an issue, but they've been doing non-stop, AI are people too, AI are good for the environment, PR campaigns for a while now. AI are also hard to detect, and noone wants to turn in e-ghost of their sister, on the off chance it's really her and not just an AI.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Since Lady Gaga was only mentioned in Aetherpedia Keyword Search: Gagaistic, I got the impression that the term Gagaistic was meant to be common, but that its origin vis-a-vis Lady Gaga is not as well known to the average person in the 2070s. This does not bother me since language is full of terms for which most people do not know the origin.

If Lady Gaga was mentioned in passing during normal conversation in a Shadowrun story, and no one asked "who was that" then I would agree that it was an example of present bias in future fiction. As for the term Gagaistic, perhaps she takes it to a whole new level when magic returns this year.

Again. I'm very confused why people are talking bout Lady Gaga.. other than a "Famous" Girl on the cover that everyone's seen and heard and the public thinks is what a shadowrunner looks like..WTF? LoL I'm very confused as to why people are having a discourse on words like Gagaistic???

[hermit]

Horizon has BTL laced Matrix Programming that subtely gets you to buy more Coke-0. They use every dirty trick in the book to get people to believe what they sell them.

If they did, word would get out, that'd be their 'blood magic moment', and I'd be much happier with them around. Problem is, they seem to achive this with bona fide methods. That is where start wundering what the hell the writers are doing there.

Hollywood of today works hard at this

Do you give a damn about Hollywood? Do I?

Aztechnology murders its own employees, they do blood sacrifices, but they're considered this golly gee swell corporation by pretty much the entire populace.

Yeah, that bit's been grateing me for a long time now. Not that they do it but how far this is known. However, this is 2073, where watching people shoot each other in the face is the new football saturday. I guess people in SR just don't give much of a damn about others dying anymore. 80s/90s selfishnes on steriods.

Horizon however? It's too American to work elsewhere. Nobody outside America and Arabia hears blogs and thinks of politics first. Nobody outside America gives much about Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, or Glee. I guess it'S an american perspective on the writers; it's just as German publications assume the German Atomic Angst being somehow not confined to Germany. Not concern about the technology but screaming madly and running in circles, which is what Germans do when anyone mentions radiation (it also happens with cellphone towers, which increase stillbirths and all kinds of disorders literally the minute they are put up - interestingly, they're usually not activated for months after, so it isn't the radiation, it's the Angst). This sums that weirdness up. "Atomic plant in Japan has an accident! CAN I STILL EAT SUSHI?!"

Interestingly enough, France's aging 50-odd power plants seem to concern nobody. Because nucleoid fumes will certainly stop at national borders, I guess.

[sabs]

Well, There was a Glee Mob Flash Dance in Hamburg about a year ago. So SOME germans care about Glee (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Sure Horizon is very American. But people all over the world fall for PR, it just has to be the right kind of PR.

[hermit]

Well, There was a Glee Mob Flash Dance in Hamburg about a year ago. So SOME germans care about Glee

81.000.000. 100. compare.

Sure, some care about Glee. I guess with certain numbers of people that's inevitable, every hat gets picked up by someone and all.

Sure Horizon is very American. But people all over the world fall for PR, it just has to be the right kind of PR.

I'd really like to see some PR agency turn Atom-Angsting Germans into Atomic-Power-loving Chinese. Because I cannot see that happen, and that's about what Horizon would have to do with at the very least the UCAS to make everyone like AI.

[Bull]

I never got why anyone in SR should be that positive about AI and technomancers, not with that world's background.

Agreed there. Let's just say Bull has some thoughts and suspicions that may crop up, if I ever find the time to work on something that's not Missions... And hell, it may crop up tehre anyways for the second half of Season 4 (Mission #13 and up) if it comes to that. Even letting aside prejudices and misinformation, the fact is both Techno's and AI's are fraggin' DANGEROUS, some of the drek they can pull.

It's like real people saying "HELL YEAH NUCLEAR POWER IN MY CITY" everywhere. Clockwork's outlook was the only one that made sense. It took a lot less than 120.000 dead in a skyscraper disaster to make mainstream America hate muslims with a vengeance, to the point Obama's second name was used as an argument against electing him, even though it just incidentally was a name with vague islamic connotations.

Pure and simple, Technomancers were mishandled in SR4. Partly because of the poor release date of Emergence, and partly because I don't know if a good "Party line" was ever laid down regarding how to handle them, and a bunch of folks writing at that time apparently thought they were "really kewl", and that came through on their writing.

Two notes I'd make though...

1) I actually have zero problem with Nuclear Power. A Nuke Plant opened up in the next town over when I was a kid, and in 8th grade I did a research paper about them and the safety protocols they use. There's a greater chance of a natural disaster causing massive death and destruction than a nuke plant these days, barring them being built like Chernobyl (which was one of the very worst possible designs you could have created). To have a really dangerous meltdown, you would literally have to somehow blow the plant up in a very large explosion (something the reactor itself isn't really capable of doing), in which case, there are other problems going on. So... "Hell yeah, Nuclear Power in my city!"

2) Keep in mind this is Shadowrun and a dystopian cyberpunk future where the corps have run 99% of the world for the last 70 years. The common man has NO thoughts other than what the corps feed them. People are sheep, led around by the nose. They don't question the corps, because they've been brainwashed not to. Shadowrunners and their ilk are the exceptions to this. Horizon and their PR machine are simply the latest iteration and refinement of the corporate process.

Bull

[BlackHat]

Again. I'm very confused why people are talking bout Lady Gaga.. other than a "Famous" Girl on the cover that everyone's seen and heard and the public thinks is what a shadowrunner looks like..WTF? LoL I'm very confused as to why people are having a discourse on words like Gagaistic???

It has nothing to do with the cover. There is just a sidebar in the book that says that "Gagaistic" is a term in the SR universe (relating to outlandish fashion statements), with origins in a man-faced celebrity from a half-century earlier.

I'm actually more okay with the idea if - as someone else suggested - its one of those terms that people use, but nobody knows why.

[hermit]

I actually have zero problem with Nuclear Power.

Yeah, maybe I should have used 9/11 as an example instead ("hell yeah for no weapons checks on airplanes"). The Atom Angst is very Germany-specific (check this article for a quick rundown), and I guess I'm not as immune to it as I'd like to think I am.

By the way, that would make you a "sheep, led around by the nose", according to many German media ... yes, that was written by serious national newspapers and news sites, refering to Americans and Japanese failing to properly panic.

Pure and simple, Technomancers were mishandled in SR4. Partly because of the poor release date of Emergence, and partly because I don't know if a good "Party line" was ever laid down regarding how to handle them, and a bunch of folks writing at that time apparently thought they were "really kewl", and that came through on their writing.

Agree. Now, how to fix this.

Agreed there. Let's just say Bull has some thoughts and suspicions that may crop up, if I ever find the time to work on something that's not Missions... And hell, it may crop up tehre anyways for the second half of Season 4 (Mission #13 and up) if it comes to that. Even letting aside prejudices and misinformation, the fact is both Techno's and AI's are fraggin' DANGEROUS, some of the drek they can pull.

Is SRM4-01 out already? I'm still playing SRM4-00, play by post on a forum, but it'd be nice to know whether or not it is.

[Pepsi Jedi]

It has nothing to do with the cover. There is just a sidebar in the book that says that "Gagaistic" is a term in the SR universe (relating to outlandish fashion statements), with origins in a man-faced celebrity from a half-century earlier.

I'm actually more okay with the idea if - as someone else suggested - its one of those terms that people use, but nobody knows why.

I must have missed it. What page is this sidebar on??

[CanRay]

1) I actually have zero problem with Nuclear Power. A Nuke Plant opened up in the next town over when I was a kid, and in 8th grade I did a research paper about them and the safety protocols they use. There's a greater chance of a natural disaster causing massive death and destruction than a nuke plant these days, barring them being built like Chernobyl (which was one of the very worst possible designs you could have created). To have a really dangerous meltdown, you would literally have to somehow blow the plant up in a very large explosion (something the reactor itself isn't really capable of doing), in which case, there are other problems going on. So... "Hell yeah, Nuclear Power in my city!"

Which proves you're smart enough to read. Something most 8th Graders aren't any more.

That said, having a nuclear target on my head for the first part of my life made me do the research as well, and I'm right behind you on the Nuclear Power. If properly built (And, frankly, you don't do anything but with a Nuke Plant after Chernobyl!), you have probably the second-toughest power plant type around (After Hydro Dams.).

2) Keep in mind this is Shadowrun and a dystopian cyberpunk future where the corps have run 99% of the world for the last 70 years. The common man has NO thoughts other than what the corps feed them. People are sheep, led around by the nose. They don't question the corps, because they've been brainwashed not to. Shadowrunners and their ilk are the exceptions to this. Horizon and their PR machine are simply the latest iteration and refinement of the corporate process.

They've been that way a lot longer than just since the Corps became Countries. People have been sheep for my entire life...

As for my own opinions on the matter... AIs are probably viewed by the average person the same way spirits are. With confusion and a touch of fear. Accepted... Maybe a few. But not many. And major PR Blitzes are needed for even those.

Technomancers are probably viewed the same way Magicians were when they first started appearing. Lots of initial fear, then the realization that they're just folks now. It might have happened a bit faster because of all the changes that have happened in living memory (Especially with First Generation Elves and Dwarves being able to tell people first-hand memories of similar situations happening with UGE, magic coming back, and so on.). Finally, AAA-Corporations want people to be more accepting, especially with Free Spirits and Dragons on the Board of Directors (Or, in one case, is the entire board himself!).

Shadowrunners are still part of that world, even if they try to think themselves apart of it. They watch the 'Trid, get blasted by advertisements, have to stomach propaganda/news reports to hear what's going on, and so on. They just also listen to pirate broadcasts and tend to think more for themselves. Which is a positive and a negative.

On the negative, they're going to be very opinionated, and will tend to stick to those opinions no matter what. It's part of their Freedom, after all. They are who they are because they CHOOSE to be who they are, not because they're told who they are. If that notion is hard-put, it's hard-kept as well.

On the positive, they deal with personalities and abilities strange and wondrous all the time, and are probably more accepting of them because of that. Kind of hard to hate the quiet, mousy Dwarf just because he's a Technomancer when your best Chummer is a borderline-sociopathic Troll who named all of his firearms and sleeps with them in rotation like they were his personal harem. When you have to deal with the people Shadowrunners do normally, a little bit of weird isn't anything new.

Another positive is that Shadowrunners are less likely to fall into the "Memory Lapse" issue that the average person is. The old guard (Of which FastJack is part of) will remember that Otaku weren't *JUST* Dues-Created Monsters. There were other ones that fought against the AI, some that were as mercenary as the rest, and some that were just kids trying to get along. And you'll be damned sure they'll educate the young'ins of that, and they'd damn well listen unless they want their hardware fried as an object lesson to respect their elders.

Now, if you excuse me, I have to make a Borderline-Sociopathic Troll who has named all his firearms and sleeps with them in rotation like his own personal harem.

[hermit]

Kind of hard to hate the quiet, mousy Dwarf just because he's a Technomancer when your best Chummer is a borderline-sociopathic Troll who named all of his firearms and sleeps with them in rotation like they were his personal harem.

I think it's safe to assume that's not the case for most 6th world denizens. Nor even for most shadowrunners.

[Critias]

I never got why anyone in SR should be that positive about AI and technomancers, not with that world's background.

The same reason anyone with Humanis affiliations gets shouted down and edited-over in the old shadowtalk (or is just shown to be an idiot), anything else smacking of racism is savagely ridiculed by the Shadowrunners doing the posting, etc, etc. Technomancers are born that way, so not fully trusting them and valuing them for who they are inside is wrong and anti-PC (same with SURGElings). The strong anti-racism undercurrent has been a part of the Shadowrun metaplot (as represented through established shadowtalk posters) for a long, long, time. Which, in a way, is something of a shame. It kind of takes out parts of the dark future by cutting them off at the knees, if we're told the world is a horrible racist place, but everyone we ever see from that world (that is to say, the Jackpointers and their other shadowtalking ilk) are all lovey-dovey with the ghouls, SURGElings, metas, technomancers, and whoever else might show up.

[BlackHat]

I must have missed it. What page is this sidebar on??

p.156

[Pepsi Jedi]

p.156

*Checks*

Ok. I'll agree. That sucks and has no place in the 'game'. While it might ((remotely)) fit with the book. I guarantee you noone's going to be talking about Gaga in 10 years. much less 60.

[hobgoblin]

The same reason anyone with Humanis affiliations gets shouted down and edited-over in the old shadowtalk (or is just shown to be an idiot), anything else smacking of racism is savagely ridiculed by the Shadowrunners doing the posting, etc, etc. Technomancers are born that way, so not fully trusting them and valuing them for who they are inside is wrong and anti-PC (same with SURGElings). The strong anti-racism undercurrent has been a part of the Shadowrun metaplot (as represented through established shadowtalk posters) for a long, long, time. Which, in a way, is something of a shame. It kind of takes out parts of the dark future by cutting them off at the knees, if we're told the world is a horrible racist place, but everyone we ever see from that world (that is to say, the Jackpointers and their other shadowtalking ilk) are all lovey-dovey with the ghouls, SURGElings, metas, technomancers, and whoever else might show up.

Iirc, SR2 had a racism social modifier table (with random rolls, so who knows if that guard had a violent hatred for elfs when the face tried to smooth talk a way in) but later editions dropped (or at least i can't recall seeing it in SR3 or later).