Looks like gel packs are the Dikote of SR4? Options

[Shaikujin]

Dikote is noticeably missing from SR4 so far.

However, for armour, it looks like gel packs does almost the same thing albeit with a -1 Body modifier to knockdown tests.

Has anyone added gel packs to each piece of an outfit?


The Vashon Steampunk Line is a 4 piece suit that gives 7/7. Adding gel packs to each of the 4 pieces would give it 11/11. Will need a body of 6 to use without encumbrance penalties though. RAW legal?

[Muspellsheimr]

Dikote is in SR4. Specifically, every applicable weapon is assumed to have dikote by default (theorized prior to Arsenal, described somewhere in there).

Gel Packs are not a must-have item. I never use them. Increased knockdown is a huge drawback.

[Whipstitch]

Gel packs are kind of an expensive toy with a niche that overlaps too much with FFBA and the piecemeal securetek armor accessories to really be considered over the top. They're basically icing.

[eyeBliss]

I wouldn't want to add gel-packs to any armored clothing. They are "obvious pockets of liquid". It is one thing to look like a concerned citizen taking reasonable precautions in a dangerous world (any of the clothing type armors from low end to high fashion). It is quite another to look like someone who expects to become a target and is packing on every bit of armor he can get. If you're going somewhere where appearances are not a concern, by all means use gel-packs. However, if you walk around looking like you expect to get shot, you're going to raise some suspicion. It kind of like how as soon as you're shirtless and drunk, a cop is bound to show up.

[Fatum]

To sum up everything said up there - PPP securetech is just better. If your GM allows FFBA, it's even betterer.

[Yerameyahu]

You mean, if your GM doesn't *disallow* it. It's a perfectly normal piece of RAW, by default.

[Fatum]

Right. Perfectly balanced, and not in any way a broken must-have item.

[Yerameyahu]

Did someone say that?

[phlapjack77]

Right. Perfectly balanced, and not in any way a broken must-have item.

Why the hate for FFBA? I don't think it's really broken - how much of the game is "broken" by having more dice to resist damage?

If you're a more character-driven player, you'll choose gear based on character concept, not on how uber it is.

If you're a min-maxer, there's always going to be leet gear.

Finally, conceptually there aren't too many problems with it, right? SnS, MRSI system, those tend to make you go "wait a minute...". FFBA makes sense in the general scheme of things.

[Shaikujin]

Thanks! Didn't expect so many replies.

So, it's legal by RAW to add gel packs to each piecemeal part of a 4 piece outfit and get +4/+4?

Regarding the -1 modifier to knockdown tests, is that a single -1 no matter how many pieces of the outfit is modified by gel packs? Or a -1 for each?



If it's only a -1, the idea was to wear Synergist (or Steampunk) on top of a set of PPP enhanced FFBA. PPP and FFBA are also gel packed.

Gel packed FFBA full suit with 4 pieces of gel packed PPP (minus helmet) will give 13/11 but encumbrance is only 6/5. Adding softweave allows a character with strength 6 to treat it as 0/0 as far as encumbrance is concerned.

Gel packed Synergist gives 9/6. So, no encumbrance for body 5.

Gel packed Steampunk gives 11/11, needs body 6 to negate encumbrance.


How far would a Fashion spell go towards mitigating the "Obvious pockets of liquid"? It changes the fit and cutting, could it fashion the pockets of liquid into something less obvious? Or perhaps fashion it such a way that it's "part of the look"? Eg something like Winter Vests, but Tres Chic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[phlapjack77]

The only thing stopping you is your GM

[Whipstitch]

Why the hate for FFBA? I don't think it's really broken - how much of the game is "broken" by having more dice to resist damage?

Exactly. FFBA is really damn nice and virtually everyone at my table finds room for it on their sheet... along with their commlink w/ PocketHacker software bundle, sidearm, smartlink shades, docwagon contract, autopicker, stick and shock rounds, Ex-Ex, ceramic knife, rating 6 medkit, high rating fake SIN, flashlight and their non-conductive standard armor. In other words, there's a difference between being a "must have" and being broken. FFBA is really good but at worst its still just a bit of power creep and shift away from Physical Damage to Stun. Even then, FFBA does a nice job against bullets but even the full body suit is pretty crappy against Impact damage.

[Manunancy]

How far would a Fashion spell go towards mitigating the "Obvious pockets of liquid"? It changes the fit and cutting, could it fashion the pockets of liquid into something less obvious? Or perhaps fashion it such a way that it's "part of the look"? Eg something like Winter Vests, but Tres Chic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'd think not very far, since for the pack's ability to work is likely to be strongly tied to their shape - they need to be thick enough to absrob the impact.

[Mäx]

So, it's legal by RAW to add gel packs to each piecemeal part of a 4 piece outfit and get +4/+4?

Yes it's legal, but it's not very smart at all.
Doing that means your pretty much knock down by every single attack done against you.

[Dakka Dakka]

Yes it's legal, but it's not very smart at all.
Doing that means your pretty much knock down by every single attack done against you.

I see how that is bad in melee, but how many melee specialist do you encounter on your runs? Against being shot again, being dropped actually is a benefit, unless the attacker is within 5m.

I agree they look stupid and I have never taken them.

[Warlordtheft]

Gel packed Synergist gives 9/6. So, no encumbrance for body 5.

Gel packed Steampunk gives 11/11, needs body 6 to negate encumbrance.

Ok. So the gun bunny maybe has enough body to do this. Mages, hackers, and other archytypes typically don't have the body to pull it off.

[Dakka Dakka]

Gel packed Synergist gives 9/6. So, no encumbrance for body 5.

Gel packed Steampunk gives 11/11, needs body 6 to negate encumbrance.

Fullbody FFBA+Aces High Jacket+PPP (without helmet) nets you 11/9 Armor which can be worn by anyone of BOD 4 and up. If you can get the GM to agree that you do not need to wear the FFBA cap and gloves for full protection (the wording isn't clear) it is even totally inconspicuous.

[Shaikujin]

Quick question, regarding the knockdown for using gel packs, would you guys interpret the description as


1) the -1 Body penalty get applied 9 times if I use it on 9 pieces of PPP/clothing armour?

or

2) I get penalized by a single -1 body even if I add gel packs to 9 pieces of PPP/clothing armour?

[Yerameyahu]

It's one penalty for the presence of gel packs. It is, of course, complete munchkinry to apply it to 9 pieces of armor. I'm not even sure it's legal; the description seems to imply that it's one treatment of multiple gel packs for the armor set as a whole. And certainly not for PPP, may they rot in hell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shaikujin]

It is, of course, complete munchkinry to apply it to 9 pieces of armor.

*Whistles and tries to look innocent*

It would have been so much simpler if they added Dikote back (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[redwulf25]

The Vashon Steampunk Line is a 4 piece suit that gives 7/7.

Only if you assume that your pants cover your torso and arms, your shirt covers your legs, and your vest covers your arms and legs (I think we can assume the overcoat to be a long coat that WOULD cover everything but your head). Otherwise it would be 4/4 on your arms and legs, 6/6 on your torso, and none on your head. Gives some incentive for called shots.

[Dakka Dakka]

Not that discussion again. SR does not have hit locations. PERIOD. Armor is added together just as the rules say. So yes, it is 7/7 everywhere.

BTW you cannot target the arm, leg or any other specific body part. All you can do with a Called Shot is either circumvent armor, hit a generic vital spot for more damage, knock something out of the target's grasp or at the GM's discretion achieve a certain effect on the target (blindness, immobility etc.)

[Yerameyahu]

Incidentally, it's that lack that supports only allow a single application of 'Gel Packs' to the person. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Piecemeal armor is a huge mistake, but we don't have to make it worse.

[Cheops]

Being knocked down is vastly superior to being shot dead. I'd much rather take the -1 to knockdown and get knocked down than take that extra bit of damage. If someone is good enough to hit my character it means I need to take cover anyway. Hitting the dirt is the most common "take cover" maneuver in the book.

[Whipstitch]

The problem with gel packs isn't the penalty so much as the fact that there are cheaper and penalty free alternatives to exhaust before you turn to them. Gel Packs are good, but they're not peerless and thus I would more readily agree with the OP if he had never made the comparison to dikote. Packs don't do anything special for you in regards to encumbrance, so they're most useful for characters that have such a high Body that they can start wearing strong armor along with FFBA and Securetek accessories but still have some room for armor before they take penalties. At that point the -1 to Body for the purpose of knockdowns isn't a big deal at all given that it takes a pretty beefy hit to knock these guys into automatic knockdown range. Meanwhile, a Body 3 magician won't be running around with gel packs because with an effective Body of 2 he could be knocked down by a fairly mundane heavy pistol hit and because he'll run out of room under the encumbrance cap well before he runs out of penalty free accessories to strap on.