In case you missed it Options

[redwulf25]

Yeah, but the US military knew enough that these Indians were doing some REALLY wacky crap. One MOAB or FAE would have done them in. When they bounced that, then they would have used a nuke* (or two). I would LOVE to see the rules explaining how to survive a 80 kiloton nuke.

* == I know FASA had to get rid of nukes because they would stop their little balkanized world building.

As a matter of fact I seem to recall something, possibly in an earlier edition, about nukes failing to work. Obviously if I'm remembering correctly that was either fixed before they nuked bug town or it was something a specific group or being was doing to the specific group of nukes launched.

Honestly Redwulf, the whole Magic Brave thing is the DUMBEST thing in Shadowrun. Next dumbest thing is Corporations being allowed that much power.

Can you really believe that Politicians would give up ANY power? I mean really lets look at the mess in Washington. A judge tells the FCC that Net Neutrality is illegal, and what does the FCC do, it made the internet a utility. This is the type of government that would allow Corporations to be extra-territorial? Really? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

Honestly we seem to be getting closer to THAT every day.

[hobgoblin]

Nukes in SR are hit and miss. The city leveling kind have not worked since the awakening (the lone eagle incident was reportedly shot down by soviet defenses, tho there is no evidence either way), but the smaller scale (in nuclear terms) ones still seems to do their thing.

And hell, try to launch a nuke by way of missile in SR and some great dragon or other may well tell a spirit to go rip the warhead off in mid flight. And any bomber is even worse off, stealth or not.

[Sengir]

In SR canon, Libya launched some chemical weapons at Israel in 2004, and got a few nukes back in exchange (IRL, it was the year Libya officially dismantled its chemical arsenal). But I guess you could try Venezuela instead or wherever. Eurowars, on the other hand, started much later, in 2030.

Damn, I always always fail at putting fictional history in the correct order (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Nath]

Nukes in SR are hit and miss. The city leveling kind have not worked since the awakening (the lone eagle incident was reportedly shot down by soviet defenses, tho there is no evidence either way), but the smaller scale (in nuclear terms) ones still seems to do their thing.

I'm gonna quote myself on this one.

2004 : Israel retaliated to a chemical attack by nuking half of Libyan cities. It worked (Rulebook, Target: Wastelands).
2006 : North Korea launched one missile at Japan. It didn't work (Rulebook).
2009 : SAIM commando had the Lone Eagle of fame launched at Russia. It didn't work (Rulebook).
2030 : India and Pakistan fires nukes in Kashmir. It worked (Shadows of Asia).
2056 : Ares brings a tactical nuke to Chicago. It worked (well, more or less, Burning Bright, Bug City).
France conducts regular underground nuclear testing off the coast of French Guiana (SOTA:2064).
2064 : Winternight has magically modified nuke exploding all over the world (System Failure).

So (1) nukes have been working more often than not (2) the two well-known failures happened before the Awakening.

[hobgoblin]

Seems i have missed some recent mushroom sprouts then, thanks for the list.

[Epicedion]

Strategic nuclear options simply aren't viable in Shadowrun due to all the corps having multiple interests in any region you could conceivably launch a nuke at. Tactical nukes might be viable, but I'd imagine most corps with those resources would be gun-shy about the public backlash and the possibility of very chaotic physical and magical repercussions. You don't nuke a city because you have interests in that city, and turning it into a radioactive toxic spirit infested wasteland doesn't benefit anyone but the toxic shaman.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Did the nukes actually go off in System Failure?

[Ascalaphus]

Did the nukes actually go off in System Failure?

IIRC, they didn't do nearly as much damage as everyone was expecting. Which led to speculation that the Awakening has changes nuclear physics somehow. Also, there are hints here and there that radiation interferes with the manasphere. I guess the interference can go both ways.

[CanRay]

IIRC, they didn't do nearly as much damage as everyone was expecting. Which led to speculation that the Awakening has changes nuclear physics somehow. Also, there are hints here and there that radiation interferes with the manasphere. I guess the interference can go both ways.

Mother Nature woke up, and boy is She slotted off!

[Critias]

assuming that Warlordtheft is actually the dumb fucking republican racist ass red neck he's trying to portray in this thread, I'm amazed that he made it through an entire Shadowrun Core rulebook or figured out how to register for these forums. Congratulations on living the american dream by rising above your birth status.

Way to show how open minded you are, by comparison.

[CanRay]

The US really needs another political party or two, just so that the opponents are not so polar opposed on, well, everything except keeping their Corporate Overlords fat and happy.

[Laodicea]

The US really needs another political party or two, just so that the opponents are not so polar opposed on, well, everything except keeping their Corporate Overlords fat and happy.

Yeah. I'm generally against all politicians from either party. It's clear that both of them only have one agenda and that is enriching themselves. The republicans are just a little less clever about hiding it. Also, they're closet racists.

[Critias]

Yeah. I'm generally against all politicians from either party. It's clear that both of them only have one agenda and that is enriching themselves. The republicans are just a little less clever about hiding it. Also, they're closet racists.

Are you ignoring the TOS on purpose, or did you just not read it when you agreed to it or when a moderator posted the pertinent sections right here to this very thread? I'm curious.

[Laodicea]

Are you ignoring the TOS on purpose, or did you just not read it when you agreed to it or when a moderator posted the pertinent sections right here to this very thread? I'm curious.

As long as the moderator is ignoring the blatantly racist and possibly threatening overtones of the original post in this thread, I'm ignoring him. I suppose it could earn me a ban, but I'm not terribly worried about it, as forum registrations are an infinite good. If the thread gets locked or deleted, I will have accomplished my goals.

[Critias]

As long as the moderator is ignoring the blatantly racist and possibly threatening overtones of the original post in this thread, I'm ignoring him. I suppose it could earn me a ban, but I'm not terribly worried about it, as forum registrations are an infinite good. If the thread gets locked or deleted, I will have accomplished my goals.

So, got it. Ignoring the TOS on purpose, then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Redjack]

Willful TOS violations will earn swift and immediate account suspensions. Done.

For the record, the specifics of the opening post are being debated by the moderation staff to determine intent. Warning may yet be forthcoming as well as a few for any follow up posts that are determined to have crossed the TOS.

Finally: The warnings however went out before the last post, which we will also be debating getting its own warning.

[Stahlseele]

What, still not locked? O.o
wonder if it'll still be ongoing and open when i wake up again.

[hobgoblin]

IIRC, they didn't do nearly as much damage as everyone was expecting. Which led to speculation that the Awakening has changes nuclear physics somehow. Also, there are hints here and there that radiation interferes with the manasphere. I guess the interference can go both ways.

I thought the party line was that Winternight tampered with them somehow to get a bigger emp out of the bang.

[Angelone]

I thought the party line was that Winternight tampered with them somehow to get a bigger emp out of the bang.

Yes, they tampered with them somehow to lessen the boom but amplify the other effects. With the magic metal I can't spell right now.

[Warlordtheft]

As long as the moderator is ignoring the blatantly racist and possibly threatening overtones of the original post in this thread, I'm ignoring him. I suppose it could earn me a ban, but I'm not terribly worried about it, as forum registrations are an infinite good. If the thread gets locked or deleted, I will have accomplished my goals.

I edited the original post to reflect my original intent. My apologies to anyone I may have offended with my original post.

PS:Yes I did get warning, and after mulling it over can see where I went wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[CanadianWolverin...]

I edited the original post to reflect my original intent. My apologies to anyone I may have offended with my original post.

PS:Yes I did get warning, and after mulling it over can see where I went wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I still object with the premise, magical SR braves and all that. Think of it like a arms race, you like that stuff, correct? Well, the FNs of SR, developed magical nukes (and all the intervening branches of science, engineering, and tech) while everyone while everyone else was still working out how to rub a few magical sticks together to get fire.

Oh, and that 1% number that gets thrown around, doesn't dictate how that breaks down, I am pretty sure that is aproximately 1% of total world population (according to our records, which we are loathe to share with other corps, and are complete and accurate despite large swaths of the population having no records aka SiNless ... oh, and some of the records were lost in crashes and troubling times when they burned down the library/county records. Oh and we lynched people who we suspected of being magical, so they totally told us they were... er, yeah, 1%, totally accurate) so you could take a guess that SR had 6 Billion in the world, 1% of that is 60 Million. Even if the AmerIndian populations had great population explosions from about where the timeline begins to divorce itself from our reality or that they never were the same at all (thanks Immortal Elves) so they have as many First Nations people as the SR universe requires to suspend disbelief reasonably, you could probably have every last one of them be magical and end up with room to spare with my fiction 1% = 60 Million number. That's right, I can totally say almost every last single person of any FN descent could have magic mojo and there would still be plenty left over for people of other ancestry. Oh, and the Amerindian treat those with magic mojo, heck, metahumanity the best out of all the other possibly choices and that isn't going to have people joining their cause. And then there is the people pissed at the corps. And the people pissed at the corrupt governments went all nazi setting up death camps and selling rights to corps. And then the people who already had a hard on for nature and then the world is convinced Mother Earth picked the Amerindian's side?

Yeah, your fire power and the UCAS partisan or military fellow who didn't defect can try to guess where the invisible, magically armored braves who call down crazy ass weather are as they steal that gear right out from under their noses and then use it against them. Oh, and not all the braves are brown. Best of luck to ya UCAS, it was nice knowing ya, adios muchachos.

Shadowrun First Nations, the original shadow runners. They don't fight fair.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Maybe it's late or something.. but Canadian.. your post..... is... .weird man... I think I can tell what you're trying to say but ... wow man.

[CanRay]

Friend of mine is even more pale than I am, blond hair, blue eyes, and can get Metis status. As far as the NAN are concerned, that makes him a AmerIndian. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Pepsi Jedi]

And it wasn't "JUST" AmerIndians either. They had sympathizers of all sorts. And people forget that the NAN isn't 100% AmerIndians. HUGE portions of their populations are nationalized people of other ethnic types that agree to the NAN's ruler-ship and sovereignty.

[Critias]

Has an argument/discussion about the probability of a successful NAN takeover of the continental United States/Canada ever gone well, people? Really? Some folks get so up in arms about it, thread after thread, it might as well be about dikoting your ally spirit.

Either you take your suspension-of-disbelief pill and you just accept Shadowrun's a zany work of fiction built on zany fictional premises in some vaguely-like-ours Earth, or you don't. The numbers have all been crunched before, the amateur experts on guerrilla warfare have all chimed in before, folks have expressed either pride or outrage at the Magical Brave stereotype before, VITAS has been mentioned before, and on and on and on, and they invariable end in bitterness, mod warnings, and/or a thread lock.

It's not history, it's Shadowrun. Was it goofy as all hell? You bet'cha. But it's there, it's canon, and the splintering of the United States (and the way in which they splintered) isn't going away any time soon because it's a cornerstone of the metaplot and has been for twenty-two years now.

Bickering over it doesn't do anyone any good, unless you've got stock in whatever company sells blood pressure medication to the moderators.