Hardliner gloves, Is using Item attunement better than making it a Weapon focus Options

[Shaikujin]

Yeah, I know hardliners have been discussed to death.

A slightly different question this time round though - Say if the GM allows hardliners with Critical Strikes/Killing hands, which is better, Item attunement or Weapon focus?

What are the pros and cons of each?



What I have so far:

1) Using Attunement frees up a slot for a Foci

2) Attunement gives bonus dice equal to half initiate grade, once bonded, raising initiation grades will give even more bonuses

3) Nuyen cheap, but karma heavy (but if I am going concentrate on pumping karma into initiation anyways, karma is not an issue)

4) Takes up 1 metamagic slot that can be used for other more important metamagics

5) Will need to pick up killing hands to allow it to affect spirits and critters with immunity to normal weapons

6) Cannot be brought into Astral space/combat (attuned items can be used as material links though)

[Makki]

1) Using Attunement frees up a slot for a Focus (!!!!) unless you're a dumb mage, not really an issue
2) Attunement gives bonus dice equal to half initiate grade, once bonded, raising initiation grades will give even more bonuses still a small bonus
3) Nuyen cheap, but karma heavy (but if I am going concentrate on pumping karma into initiation anyways, karma is not an issue) mages rarely have nuyen problems. but karma problems
4) Takes up 1 metamagic slot that can be used for other more important metamagics exactly
5) Will need to pick up killing hands to allow it to affect spirits and critters with immunity to normal weapons ofc
6) Cannot be brought into Astral space/combat (attuned items can be used as material links though) well


how can you think about attunement for a melee weapon? weapon foci are awesome! From a game mechanic point, I think it's too karma expensive. In the long run a gunslinger might attune his favorite gun. But I think it's best meant for Artist and their favorite tool. Maybe a sports adept and his favorite piece of gear (a piece that doesn't have to be replaced with a new version every year)

[Shaikujin]

1) Using Attunement frees up a slot for a Focus (!!!!) unless you're a dumb mage, not really an issue

Yeah, this isn't much of an issue. Was thinking, "this way I can carry 1 (or 2 if I do both gloves) more sustaining focus". Those force 1 sustaining foci are really useful (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

2) Attunement gives bonus dice equal to half initiate grade, once bonded, raising initiation grades will give even more bonuses still a small bonus

I was thinking about this too. But initiation grade is one of the things in SR that's uncapped. Mages/adepts can keep on initiating long after they have maxed out their core stats and skills. All things considered however, the max bonus dice from Attunement will be less than half of what mages/adepts can get from a maxed out weapon focus. But see last paragraph.

3) Nuyen cheap, but karma heavy (but if I am going concentrate on pumping karma into initiation anyways, karma is not an issue) mages rarely have nuyen problems. but karma problems

This is very true. See last paragraph though.

4) Takes up 1 metamagic slot that can be used for other more important metamagics exactly

No way around this, it'll definitely delay the learning of other more useful metamagics.

5) Will need to pick up killing hands to allow it to affect spirits and critters with immunity to normal weapons ofc

6) Cannot be brought into Astral space/combat (attuned items can be used as material links though) well

how can you think about attunement for a melee weapon? weapon foci are awesome! From a game mechanic point, I think it's too karma expensive. In the long run a gunslinger might attune his favorite gun. But I think it's best meant for Artist and their favorite tool. Maybe a sports adept and his favorite piece of gear (a piece that doesn't have to be replaced with a new version every year)

I know, I know, weapon foci are really awesome! I have been using them since SR1 (which worked even better, coz it works as a stacked weapon/power focus). It sounds like blasphemy to consider something else. I'm just exploring the other options that's available.

Weapon focus costs Rating x 10,000 Nuyen, and takes Rating x 3 Karma to bond.
Attuning an item takes 5 karma (1 time cost) for simple non-mechanically operated items.

Karma cost for group initiation after going through an ordeal is (New grade x 3 + 10) * 0.6.


The Karma needed to bind a rating 6 weapon focus is 18. (Also requires 8 karma to get to initiate 1)
The Karma needed to improve from grade 5 to grade 6 initiate is 17. (Note that Attunement grants a bonus equal to only half the initiate grade, so to get the same number of bonus dice as a rating 6 weapon foci, I need to reach initiate grade 11, ie twice the weapon focus rating I am aiming for).


The thing is, I can't improve the rating 6 weapon focus to a rating 7 focus by simply paying the difference in Karma. That means I need to buy a brand new rating 7 focus and spend the full 21 karma to bind it. The 18 karma I spent on binding my old rating 6 weapon focus is gone for good.

And if I keep upgrading to a new weapon focus every time I qualify, that's going to be a lot of wasted karma. By rating 15, the cumulative karma I have spent bonding my previous 15 weapon foci (plus the initiation required to bond rating 7+ foci) will be more than if I had spent getting to initiate grade 29 (grade 29 will be the level that gives +15 dice for attuned items).

Of course, most games rarely last that long. This method is efficient, but a really late bloomer. On the plus side though, I don't have to pull my hair out deciding if I should spend that 18 karma to bond a new weapon foci now, or if I should I spend it on something else first?

[Makki]

well, if you're talking double digit initiate grades, you're probably talking being the right hand of a dragon, right? I'm not sure a Shadowrunner would reach that kind of advancement and still couldn't afford a permanent luxury lifestyle.

reasonable numbers seem to be like Force 3 to 5 (maybe 6) for foci and initiate grade 2 to 4, I'd say. Before a runner will retire.

[Shaikujin]

well, if you're talking double digit initiate grades, you're probably talking being the right hand of a dragon, right? I'm not sure a Shadowrunner would reach that kind of advancement and still couldn't afford a permanent luxury lifestyle.

reasonable numbers seem to be like Force 3 to 5 (maybe 6) for foci and initiate grade 2 to 4, I'd say. Before a runner will retire.

Truth be told, it is more of a mental exercise. I'd never played a character for so long.

I'm just exploring what other pros and cons there are to doing this, now that there's an alternative to wasting karma on upgrading weapon focus or getting stuck with the weapon focus initially bought.

[TheOOB]

Assuming these rules, the weapon foci wins hands down. Item Attunement is kind of a weak metamagic technique to start(can't imagine why you would pick it over an extra Power Point), and it's really meant to be used for things like vehicles and tools that may otherwise be hard to get bonuses with. There are plenty of ways already to make weapons awesome.

The real question is if said GM would allow critical strike + shock gloves (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shaikujin]

Thanks for the feedback guys!


I think I'll stick to making a weapon focus now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I forgot that I can trade metamagic for another point of magic! That's huge...


Btw, this is how I envision the hardliner weapon focus would look like -

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5507/alexx.gif