Lightning Bolt Spell Options

[redwulf25]

Is it physical damage or stun? The spell description says it does physical damage but it's also supposed to be elemental damage, specifically electric which according to page 163 is by definition stun damage.

[Yerameyahu]

Yup, wacky right? It's P because it says P. Pay no attention to the total incoherence of the elemental rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mäx]

It's P damage and the reason for that is that it's a fraking lightning bolt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[redwulf25]

Thanks for the replies. That's pretty much what I was assuming but I hate it when the rules get incoherent like that.

[Yerameyahu]

Just wait for the bit where people use it to argue for a P sonic bolt that ignores vehicle armor. Sigh.

[CanRay]

"I shouted so loud I flipped the Roadmaster over!" "Actually, it was your breath..."

[TheOOB]

I let players choose when they take the spell if it is physical or stun damage, which I acknowledge is a house rule.

I believe by RAW all indirect combat spells are physical.

[K1ll5w1tch]

What about the special rules of electricity, Willpower rolls for consciousness. Does it get those effects even while doing "P" damage?

[CanRay]

I let players choose when they take the spell if it is physical or stun damage, which I acknowledge is a house rule.

Actually, I was just thinking this very fact this evening. I think it's a good suggestion, with less Drain Cost for a Stun spell, of course.

[Epicedion]

It's Physical damage with the Willpower + Body test and the disorientation. If your players want to do Stun damage, politely show them Stunbolt.

My general rule is that what's in the spell entry goes. If players want to design a new spell, then they need to worry about how elemental damage works.

The section on electricity damage in the main book was obviously written to cover things like tasers and sticking your tongue in a wall socket. The elemental damage section in Street Magic was obviously not proofread very closely.

[Epicedion]

Oh, to quickly house-rule elemental effects to something manageable, just take out the line that forces Elemental spells to do physical damage. Add a line about how Electricity spells can deal physical damage while real sources of electricity don't.

If you want people to hate Sound spells again, make people hearing through technology (cyberears, earbuds, fully enclosed helmets, etc) immune, or at least highly protected. The only thing loud noises can really do to you is damage/destroy your eardrums (which would be excruciatingly painful and debilitating and fully justify no-armor Stun damage). It's a loud sound, not the resonance frequency of people. Any good piece of future tech used for hearing would include a filter to cap the amplitude of input/output.

[CanRay]

Having had my eardrums burst on me, I can say from personal experience that it [Content Deleted By SysOp for Profanity].

[Epicedion]

Having had my eardrums burst on me, I can say from personal experience that it [Content Deleted By SysOp for Profanity].

Oh, scuba diving. So painful but so fun.

[TheOOB]

What about the special rules of electricity, Willpower rolls for consciousness. Does it get those effects even while doing "P" damage?

Yes lightning bolt still gets the electricity effects, that's why indirect spells are so expensive to cast. Even if the damage doesn't kill them, they'll likely be unconscious for a round or two, or a least take a sharp penalty. Works against drones too(bonus if your GM rules that object resistance doesn't apply.)

To expand on my post above, any indirect spell I allow to do stun damage for -1 drain as per spell creation rules, and element types that are condusive to non-lethal damage(electric, sound, water, ect), generally have publicly available formula(in fact taser and riot bomb are fairly common lone star spells in my games). Stun fire spells and the like generally require independent research(and are kinda pointless, when they catch on fire they're taking physical damage anyways).

[Yerameyahu]

Epicedion, and vehicles/etc. are immune? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Because that's the actual problem.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

What about the special rules of electricity, Willpower rolls for consciousness. Does it get those effects even while doing "P" damage?

Yes it does...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Oh, to quickly house-rule elemental effects to something manageable, just take out the line that forces Elemental spells to do physical damage. Add a line about how Electricity spells can deal physical damage while real sources of electricity don't.

If you want people to hate Sound spells again, make people hearing through technology (cyberears, earbuds, fully enclosed helmets, etc) immune, or at least highly protected. The only thing loud noises can really do to you is damage/destroy your eardrums (which would be excruciatingly painful and debilitating and fully justify no-armor Stun damage). It's a loud sound, not the resonance frequency of people. Any good piece of future tech used for hearing would include a filter to cap the amplitude of input/output.

Sound waves can do a LOT more to the human body than just burst an eardrum or two...

[Epicedion]

Epicedion, and vehicles/etc. are immune? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Because that's the actual problem.

Vehicles can't have burst eardrums.

Sound waves can do a LOT more to the human body than just burst an eardrum or two...

Not as they're described in the book. Elemental Sound is described as "loud." Spells are instantaneous. Sounds that can actually cause internal injury to lab rats are extremely far outside the range of hearing and the exposure has to happen over a length of time. Sonic spells are just big booms.

[Yerameyahu]

You're mixing up the (terrible) rules. The Sound element does *only* two things: ignore armor, and deal Stun damage. Everything else is fluff. If deaf things and/or machines were immune, it would say so. Now, this isn't a problem *if* you force it to do Stun damage, because machines are inherently immune to stun.

However, if you (by which I mean 'one', not Epicedion) let them do Physical damage, the *rules* say you've created something that destroys tanks.

So, yes, if you're gonna get all 'reasonable' and 'common sense' on things, maybe it makes sense. You'd *never* allow a Physical Sound spell. But this is Shadowrun and you should know better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The whole premise here was that you *did* allow a Physical Sound spell.

[Epicedion]

You're mixing up the (terrible) rules. The Sound element does *only* two things: ignore armor, and deal Stun damage. Everything else is fluff. If deaf things and/or machines were immune, it would say so. Now, this isn't a problem *if* you force it to do Stun damage, because machines are inherently immune to stun.

However, if you (by which I mean 'one', not Epicedion) let them do Physical damage, the *rules* say you've created something that destroys tanks.

So, yes, if you're gonna get all 'reasonable' and 'common sense' on things, maybe it makes sense. You'd *never* allow a Physical Sound spell. But this is Shadowrun and you should know better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The whole premise here was that you *did* allow a Physical Sound spell.

Oh, yeah, never let Sound damage be Physical. That's just asking for it. Wrecks the whole magic system.

[Tanegar]

Add a line about how Electricity spells can deal physical damage while real sources of electricity don't.

Lolwut? I suspect the legions of people killed by electrocution would beg to differ.

[Epicedion]

Lolwut? I suspect the legions of people killed by electrocution would beg to differ.

Stun damage overflow, sir.

Need to add that sound damage doesn't overflow while we're at it.

[Tanegar]

Mmmmno. Pretty sure electrically-induced cardiac arrhythmia isn't overflow, not to mention electrical burns.

[Epicedion]

Mmmmno. Pretty sure electrically-induced cardiac arrhythmia isn't overflow, not to mention electrical burns.

Extremely high damage rating? It's difficult to have a game mechanic that models an arrythmia. For comparison, getting shot in the stomach in SR doesn't exactly make you septic and die, either.

[Tanegar]

The simplest (and possibly most realistic) method is the one suggested by TheOOB: the player chooses whether an electrical spell does stun or physical damage. Since, you know, electricity can, in fact, do either.