VR Hacking in an AR World, or: Why Do Corps Bother with Black ICE Anymore? Options

[Epicedion]

For some reason, I'm unable to get my team's hacker to do any VR hacking, except when Probing the Target (and then only for the time bonus).

I know there's apparently some way to get some 5 IPs out of hot sim, and there's that +2 bonus to Matrix actions, but with the lingering threat of dumpshock and Black ICE, Wired Reflexes 2 seems to be "good enough."

I suppose a way to show how nasty a full hot sim hacker can be would be to have him get online-murdered by someone with 14 dice and 5 IPs who hacks his commlink and starts loading Rating 6 data bombs on all his programs (command>load analyze.exe >> WARNING DATA BOMB DETECTELKAJSLKFjaskj1230Acarrier lost //// system restarting WELCOME DAVE // command>load defuse.exe >> WARNING DATA BOMB DETEALKJALDIJFALIJFALIjcarrier lost).

No one plugs the cable into their brain anymore.

I'm sure this happens to everyone... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

An AR hacker is usually a combat hacker.

In that regard, their challenge isn't out-fighting IC, it's not getting shot to death by corp-sec with the rest of the team.

Also, Black IC was never supposed to be a common thing. Black IC is for places that aren't supposed to exist. The usual response is Trace and drop a quick-response team on their head.

Have your AR hacker run into a for-realsies Spider with 5 IPs running hotsim and getting 5 trace actions per pass. By the time your boy realizes what's up, he'll be surrounded.

[Ascalaphus]

When I played a hacker I rather liked those five IPs. But AR hacking has taken a lot of the shine off VR, that's true.

Personally, I think they set up the rule wrongly. It should have been

DNI => vulnerable to biofeedback, but fast
Turtle => no biofeedback, but slow and way less Matrix Perception

Because the AR/VR split is like saying that the color of your desktop determines how vulnerable your computer is to hacking, instead of the OS you're running.

[hobgoblin]

I would say the major fault of SR4 hacking is the loss of the middle space that was gray ICE, the ones that could turn a Fairlight into one very expensive paper weight.

So sure you could go in via AR. But then would have risked having the spider swap hammer for acid and melt that response chip to slag. There would also be the random sec guy going "your carrying how many comlinks?!" (not that it can not happen already if one go for a cluster).

The closest we got is a virus in Unwired that can mess up the comlink OS, but even it operates on a time scale of minutes.

And yes, black hammer is the matrix equivalent of "trespassers will be shot".

[Draco18s]

And yes, black hammer is the matrix equivalent of "trespassers will be shot".

More correctly, it's the sign that says "Welcome to Area 51. Trespassers will be Shot."

Because they'll shoot you with alien lasers that won't even leave a corpse. "No guv, haven't seen any bodies come in lately, why?"

[Makki]

the most common response to hacker detection will not be IC. It will be system shut down, disconnect everybody and restart. Sure, in hot sim he will deal with dumpshock, but in AR the chance to trigger the alarm is much higher.
IC shouldn't be a factor in 90% of the nodes, only those which can't be restarted.

and while I like AR Hacking, too, it shouldn't be that good actually. It should be way slower, which is reflected in the interval for Probing. VR=1 hour, AR=1 day. For some reason the devs did not hold on to that and make everything slower. Like e.g. make the Hacking-on-the-fly interval (VR=1complex) 1min in AR. etc...

[Ascalaphus]

I thought about that.. just slowing all AR hacking actions down by one step. It basically means you're toast if you get into a fight, because you can't really keep up with any IC. (Your attacks turn from Complex Actions into Full Turn actions)

Not sure that's really a bad thing...

[Blade]

House rules I've used:

- All DNI access open the door to dangerous signals but AR access has a biofeedback filter of rating 4.
- Accessing in AR, even through DNI is detrimental to precision and matrix perception. All combat actions suffer and Matrix perception rolls suffer a -2 dice pool modifier
- When accessing without a DNI, automatic actions become simple actions, simple actions become complex actions and complex actions become exclusive (meaning that getting interrupted / distracted will have you stop your action) complex action that take an entire turn. All extended tests have their intervals go one step up (complex action to combat turn, combat turn to minute, minute to hour, hour to day, day to month).

Be careful since it allows hackers to attack unexpecting DNI-using people with stun attack programs (but he still needs to be connected to a node where the person persona is).

[Ascalaphus]

I rather like the idea that hackers assault unsuspecting members of the public. That people thought they were safely cruising the matrix are suddenly attacked. Cyberpunk/dystopia life should be uncertain and subject to sudden accidents and attacks.

[hobgoblin]

There was a scare story in Emergence related to that, but i think it was attributed to wild sprites rather then TMs.

[Saint Sithney]

AR still reads your mind, it just doesn't project a simulated reality straight into your brain. If anything AR is easier on your computer than VR.

Matrix perception in AR should definitely be worse, but speed shouldn't be an issue for the same reason that Logic isn't an issue. Hackers use programs and programs do the lifting. Programs are like drones. They are instructed/piloted and act depending on how well they are instructed. A hacker doesn't do massive mathematical transformations just like how a rigger doesn't expel thousands of foot-pounds of thrust from his backside.

[Raven the Tricks...]

Hackers use programs and programs do the lifting. Programs are like drones. They are instructed/piloted and act depending on how well they are instructed. A hacker doesn't do massive mathematical transformations just like how a rigger doesn't expel thousands of foot-pounds of thrust from his backside.

Hehe, that's just awesome.

[hobgoblin]

AR still reads your mind, it just doesn't project a simulated reality straight into your brain. If anything AR is easier on your computer than VR.

Not unless your using trodes. Glasses and Gloves (G&G?) put a proverbial air gap between the matrix and your brain.

[scarius]

dont forget that if your gear is shut down that you still need to reboot them, while this is painfull in VR, if your hackers only running in AR they wont be able to do much more then reboot their gear every other turn

[Saint Sithney]

Not unless your using trodes. Glasses and Gloves (G&G?) put a proverbial air gap between the matrix and your brain.

You mean the gloves that cost 5 times as much and provide no mechanical benefit over trodes, flAvoR gloves?

Yeah, there's no real reason to use those, but AR Hackers do anyway, and they move just as fast as your augmented/magic fingers will propel them.

[Ascalaphus]

You mean the gloves that cost 5 times as much and provide no mechanical benefit over trodes, flAvoR gloves?

Yeah, there's no real reason to use those, but AR Hackers do anyway, and they move just as fast as your augmented/magic fingers will propel them.

That's a nice design flaw yeah.

It would have been a lot cleaner to make the big division DNI/air gap interface.

I got the feeling that using Wired etc. to make AR go as fast as VR wasn't really what they wanted but after they accidentally put that in, they had to come up with the two IP boosters for VR.

I mean, before Arsenal and Augmentation got the Simsense Booster & Accelerator, an Adept with Improved Reflexes III in AR was a better hacker than someone in VR; faster and immune to biofeedback.

VR was always supposed to be the "more powerful but also more dangerous" option; it's only barely more powerful, not really proportionate to the increased danger.

[Manunancy]

Not unless your using trodes. Glasses and Gloves (G&G?) put a proverbial air gap between the matrix and your brain.

That's glogo for gloces and googles interface.

[hobgoblin]

You mean the gloves that cost 5 times as much and provide no mechanical benefit over trodes, flAvoR gloves?

Yeah, there's no real reason to use those, but AR Hackers do anyway, and they move just as fast as your augmented/magic fingers will propel them.

Point. And makes me wonder why they did not extend dumpshock to trode accessed AR (likely at cold sim rates or slightly less).

[Fortinbras]

AR = 1 IP. Problem solved.

It's one of the very few ways my game differs from RAW.
If you aren't afraid of IC & Dumpshock, it's not Shadowrun!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

AR = 1 IP. Problem solved.

It's one of the very few ways my game differs from RAW.
If you aren't afraid of IC & Dumpshock, it's not Shadowrun!

This is one of the Optional Rules...

[Ascalaphus]

AR = 1 IP. Problem solved.

It's one of the very few ways my game differs from RAW.
If you aren't afraid of IC & Dumpshock, it's not Shadowrun!

I thought about that too, but it's vaguely ugly; besides spending 1 IP in the Matrix, can you use your other IPs in the meatworld? Because if you can't, then AR is de facto almost more VR than VR, just sucky.

[sabs]

Of course you can spend your meat IP's in the Meat.
We're just saying that in AR you can only do 1 complex action a round.

[Draco18s]

Of course you can spend your meat IP's in the Meat.
We're just saying that in AR you can only do 1 complex action a round.

No, what he's asking is if someone can do this:

IP 1: Meat action: interact with AR
IP 2: Meat action
IP 3: Meat action

[sabs]

If you have 3 meat IP in a round, why wouldn't you?
I'm confused. How else are you getting 3 IP in AR?

[Epicedion]

No, what he's asking is if someone can do this:

IP 1: Meat action: interact with AR
IP 2: Meat action
IP 3: Meat action

AFAIK there's nothing stopping you. If someone is in the middle of a firefight and trying to AR hack, I'd consider applying the -2 "distracted" penalty to Matrix Perception tests, though.

I'm not sure how I'd modify someone actively trying to do stuff like shoot and dodge and hack all at once, though.