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> Expanded Metagenetics, Help with them
Kesendeja
post Apr 2 2011, 05:00 AM
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I've been working on expanding the metagenetic qualities in the game, and I'd like to see what people think about them. I'd also like to see any other people have used in their games.

I'll start it off with mine.

Augmented Attributes
10 BP per level

This metagenetic quality gives the character a plus one per level to their attribute that may break the normal limits. Each time it is purchased they must designate which attribute it affects. they may, with the GM's approval, purchase it up to five times for each attribute.


Wings (Redux)
Cost: 10 or 20 BP

The character possesses a set of wings with a total span equal to three times their height.

Bone density or lacing will render the character to heavy to fly or glide.

At 10 BP they cannot fly only glide. But they are also immune to falling damage providing that they have room to spread their wings. Their speed is equal to their running speed. If they can catch thermal updrafts they can extend the distance they can glide.

For 20 BP their bodies have undergone radical restructuring to allow true flight. Their bones have reshaped into a honeycomb structure that lightens them by 50% which compensates for their weight of the wings. Weight is equal to the character pre-surge. Increased tensile strength in muscles has resulted in an elevated temperature that makes them easier to spot. They receive a -1D to hide against thermographics. Finally their metabolism increases to provide the energy necessary for flight. Add 20% to lifestyle costs for additional dietary requirements.

They fly at a rate of twice their running speed.

Celerity counts to increase flight speed as well, but leg enhancements do not. Speed can be further increased with a Flight check in the same way running does.
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Xahn Borealis
post Apr 2 2011, 05:05 AM
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They'd have to be pretty strong to let a human fly, let alone ork or troll. Don't forget the potential use as an Exotic Melee Weapon, either. As dwarfs are smaller, I'd give them a bonus to movement rate, as well as those with the Neotenic quality. To be honest, I'm surprised this didn't show up in RC originally. There's several bird-like metagenetic qualities but not this.
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Kesendeja
post Apr 2 2011, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (Xahn Borealis @ Apr 2 2011, 01:05 AM) *
They'd have to be pretty strong to let a human fly, let alone ork or troll. Don't forget the potential use as an Exotic Melee Weapon, either. As dwarfs are smaller, I'd give them a bonus to movement rate, as well as those with the Neotenic quality. To be honest, I'm surprised this didn't show up in RC originally. There's several bird-like metagenetic qualities but not this.


I assumed that the wings would be strong enough to allow flight, but a cheaper version only for gliding could be interesting.

Dwarfs actually seem to weigh as much as humans, so they wouldn't get that much of a bonus, maybe give them the same speed. But would this mean that heavier trolls would actually be slower?
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Yerameyahu
post Apr 2 2011, 08:50 PM
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AFAIK, it'd be ungodly hard to make a humanoid fly without full-on pixie magic. In terms of total systemic body changes, I mean. Forget trolls, just regular people. I feel like the reason this isn't in RC is because it's so impossible… and of dubious benefit. A sort of flying-squirrel gliding membrane seems more reasonable, though still firmly in the 'more weird than desirable' camp.

Perhaps a bird- or bat-like parasentient would be a better fit? A harpy Infected?
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Minchandre
post Apr 5 2011, 06:18 AM
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Of course, Pixie magic isn't impossible. Just cause the quality to give the character Magic 1 (which can be increased as normal if an Adept or Magician), with the caveat that if their Magic ever goes below 1 for whatever reason, they can no longer fly.
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longbowrocks
post Apr 5 2011, 06:24 AM
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Of course all it take is a little bit of pixie magic, but you're forgetting the primary component: "you just gotta believe!"
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Abstruse
post Apr 5 2011, 06:31 AM
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QUOTE (Minchandre @ Apr 5 2011, 12:18 AM) *
Of course, Pixie magic isn't impossible. Just cause the quality to give the character Magic 1 (which can be increased as normal if an Adept or Magician), with the caveat that if their Magic ever goes below 1 for whatever reason, they can no longer fly.

Please no. Thanks to Dragonborn in D&D 4e, there's too many furries posing as gamers as it is...
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longbowrocks
post Apr 5 2011, 06:34 AM
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AFAIK, it'd be ungodly hard to create a directed ground-effect cushion under the character’s feet, allowing him to hover a few centimeters above the ground without full-on pixie magic. In terms of total systemic energy capacity, I mean. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

On a related note, I want to try doing 100 push-ups.
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Abstruse
post Apr 5 2011, 06:40 AM
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Humans flat-out aren't built for wing flight. We're too dense. Birds have skeletal structures specifically designed to be as light as possible without losing much strength. Also, a pair of wings would require a second set of pectoral muscles, specifically very very strong ones. You're better off figuring out a way to pull an Iron Man than an Angel.
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Pepsi Jedi
post Apr 5 2011, 06:44 AM
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In a game where dragons, Huge giant reptiles, fly around effortlessly, I think the physics behind it are a bit... shall we say unwanted? Lol

IRL it might be almost impossible for a human to fly with angle sized wings.

In the game. Dragons fly. All sorts of meta critters fly. Aren't gargoyles made of stone and fly?
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Abstruse
post Apr 5 2011, 06:55 AM
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QUOTE (Pepsi Jedi @ Apr 5 2011, 12:44 AM) *
In a game where dragons, Huge giant reptiles, fly around effortlessly, I think the physics behind it are a bit... shall we say unwanted? Lol

IRL it might be almost impossible for a human to fly with angle sized wings.

In the game. Dragons fly. All sorts of meta critters fly. Aren't gargoyles made of stone and fly?

Yeah, but those critters are all magical in origin. It's talked about in Dragons of the Sixth World p12, complete with a description of oriental dragons as "the kind of dragon that likes to snub gravity so much it doesn't even have wings".
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Machiavelli
post Apr 5 2011, 08:21 AM
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Ainīt SURGE also some kind of...magic?^^
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Caadium
post Apr 5 2011, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 5 2011, 01:21 AM) *
Ainīt SURGE also some kind of...magic?^^


Not as I understand it. It is just a random genetic expression. In fact, when Surge was first introduced, awakened were 50% less likely to undergo SURGE than mundanes.

Dragons, Drakes, Pixies, etc, are magical creatures, their flight is more magic in origin. Don't get me wrong, I've considered making a Drake just so I could fly, so flight through less cost-prohibitive means appeals to me. Hell, in SR2 I had a GM let me create a Flight spell (faster travel than levitate, only castable on myself, with much higher drain).

However, when you look at the science-fiction aspect of Shadowrun I'd have to tell my players no if they asked for something like this. If you want to go for personal flight that isn't magic in nature, I suspect looking at things like flight packs or similar things. To me, wings either have to be workable or magical; not something in between.
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Machiavelli
post Apr 5 2011, 09:13 AM
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As is understand it, Surge is nothing more than a metagenetic expression through induced magic. Surge started as halleys comet caused some sort of mana-spike and even nowadays some people goblinize or change if the are expelled to a high level of mana, so the reason for the change would definitely be magic. Once it expresses, it doesnīt need magic to sustain, nor is it active magic...in that case i agree, but the effect itself is magic in nature. Some of the effects are also definitely paranormal (e.g. glamour, nasty vibe, etc.) so something like flight shouldnīt be the problem. Not really.^^
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Muspellsheimr
post Apr 5 2011, 10:28 AM
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Contrary to popular belief, humanoid winged flight is not actually "impractical". A wingspan of approximately 2.5 times the individual's height (12 - 14 feet for the average human) would be sufficient to provide lift. It would, however, require significant restructuring of their back & shoulder area to handle the comparatively extreme stress, as well as exceptionally strong muscle development to support the wing use. Hollowing of the bones would also be sensible, but not strictly necessary dependent on other changes; hardening the bones (without increasing density - not exactly sure how) would offset their decreased strength for practical purposes.

On the whole, it looks quite a bit similar to a metagenic quality I developed a while back. Unfortunately I never got a chance to play the character I built it for.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 5 2011, 11:56 AM
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Gargoyles.
Else:
Is Drake-Flight Magical or is it from the wings?
We have a Precedent here.
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Yerameyahu
post Apr 5 2011, 01:30 PM
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Drake-flight is magic.

I didn't mean that SURGE is mundane in nature. I *did* mean that SURGE effects are largely non-magical (some clear exceptions), and that you don't even need wings if the flight is magical.

I was referring specifically to the massive muscle/skeleton restructuring required; to me, the very definition of 'impractical'.
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Rasumichin
post Apr 5 2011, 02:51 PM
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I'd make the wings in themselves only good for gliding and preventing damage from falls, maybe also short hops.
For actual flight, i'd introduce a second quality that includes changes to the character's bone structure (incompatible with bone lacing/bone density augmentation, probably also with a reduced physical damage track).
Maybe add a third quality for air sacs.
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Cougar
post Apr 5 2011, 03:08 PM
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Reminds me of something I had seen a while ago . . . . .

Found it: http://www.memento-mori.com/other/games/angels.html

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Abstruse
post Apr 5 2011, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Apr 5 2011, 07:30 AM) *
Drake-flight is magic.

I didn't mean that SURGE is mundane in nature. I *did* mean that SURGE effects are largely non-magical (some clear exceptions), and that you don't even need wings if the flight is magical.

I was referring specifically to the massive muscle/skeleton restructuring required; to me, the very definition of 'impractical'.

Drakes and SURGE are two different things that just happened to occur around the same time due to the surge in mana levels.
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Yerameyahu
post Apr 5 2011, 10:33 PM
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Right. SURGE effects are generally in the 'biological' camp (rhino hide), instead of the flatly 'magic' side (pixie flight). But, even if you said the SURGE flight was magic, then you wouldn't even *need* the wings.
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Machiavelli
post Apr 6 2011, 03:38 PM
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Depends. I think in the description of the Surge-Effects they mention that you nearly almost (especially at high-rating Surge-classes) have some kind of "theme" the changings follow. So flying without wings wouldnīt be SURGE.^^
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Xahn Borealis
post Apr 6 2011, 03:59 PM
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Especially as there's already several other bird-themed metagenetic qualities: feathers, beak...
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Machiavelli
post Apr 6 2011, 07:10 PM
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Right. But at least you could so some kind of ostrich-man....not cool but possible.
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Xahn Borealis
post Apr 6 2011, 07:12 PM
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Roadrunner, with Celerity?
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