Non shiva-arms trollBow, I felt bad about the Uber Troll Bow topic, so here's a better one& Options

[Ramorta]

I'm not talking suboptimal, like power-gaming wise. I'm talking underpowered, like you see various firearms all over battlefields and domestic crime these days, but no one who's serious about inter-personal violence uses a bow (expect indigenous tribes in some places). It just doesn't have a place in that environment.

All in all, I wasn't looking at the stats in that case. I was effectively saying: "You guys want realistic bows? I admit those stats may be realistic, but they would be more so if we didn't have the weapon at all."

Thats because the people using the bows are getting away with it.

[longbowrocks]

Thats because the people using the bows are getting away with it.

Dun, dun, dun!
Beware the secret underground that's so accomplished that they've never been heard of. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/scatter.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Glyph]

Also, does anyone know where the stats/cost for mini-grenades are? Arsenal lied to me.

They cost the same as standard grenades, unless SR4A changed that (I only have SR4).

[Angelone]

I believe minigrenades are in the main book in the Gear section.

Most people don't use bows because they are harder to use than a gun. It's harder to pull back a bowstring than it is to pull a trigger and it hurts when it smacks them in the arm because they don't know to wear a bracer.

[longbowrocks]

I believe minigrenades are in the main book in the Gear section.

Most people don't use bows because they are harder to use than a gun. It's harder to pull back a bowstring than it is to pull a trigger and it hurts when it smacks them in the arm because they don't know to wear a bracer.

Yeah, the should be in the main book under "grenades, rockets, and missiles, but I can only find handheld grenades.

As for the bow, I've never had any trouble without bracers, but then again I don't quite draw to my ear. As for why they aren't used, we could add fire rate, range, penetrating power (arguably), and accuracy (shots fired from a barrel will be more consistent, and have less wind shear).

[Yerameyahu]

I agree, too: bows *should* suck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Angelone]

I haven't had any problems without a bracer either, but some of my friends, umm yeah, tore up.

[longbowrocks]

@Angelone Ouch.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So . . what . . you get the complete 1920 Damage(or whatevr) and it's all inside the 10m blast radius of the original mini grenade?
Congratulations, we have gone from Nuke to anti-matter bomb which simply annihilates ANYTHING in that 10m circle and then completely stops O.o

Nope, You just soak that Grenade Damage multiple times. That is how I do it. That is how it should be done. None of this crazy adding overlapping areas to get a Grenade blast that has an area of 2 Kilometers. That is just crazy. As has been noted. Again, those who write rules for ordnance should have at least some idea on how it works.

[longbowrocks]

Its legal. MRSI supports grenade launchers. If you can get a character with enough recoil compensation to actually fire them all (note that for heavy weapons any uncompensated recoil is doubled) you'd be doing 8x60 = 480 DV in a single IP, 1920 DV over the course of all 4 IP's. The primary problem is that you'll run out of ammo too quickly to be able to maintain that damage for long. Not that you need too. You could level a building with damage like that. ((Keep in mind, that the printed stats for a THOR shot is only 30P.))

Just bringing this back so we remember where we got the 1920 DV. can we ask the guys working on shadowrun to tweak the rules so that this actually works? It's already close enough that it doesn't really matter. Additionally, the looks on your team mates faces when they realize you did enough damage to destroy a battalion of tanks, AND used 240 grenades in 3 seconds? Priceless.

P.S. I think the resource cost for that combat turn would be about 4800 NuYen.

[Method]

Just use the base damage of a single grenade compared to armor to determine stun vs physical (and by extension effect on vehicles) as you would with a burst from a firearm. Then you can fire a bazillion grenades at a tank and it will come out unscathed. Lightly armored personnel are fucked, as they should be.

And don't let your players use MRSI for multiple actions of full auto grenade bursts. The rules as written indicate that the system works for 2 projectiles (although the fluff for the MGL-18 seems to contradict this). I would also point out that MRSI works for weapon systems with Flight Time (which does not apply to grenade launchers because their range is less than 1000 meters) or weapons that fire twice in the same turn. In the second case (which does apply to grenade launchers), the damage is calculated and resisted at the time that the second projectile would hit. Thus even using the rules are written the most you could add is 2 consecutive full bursts (which is still a little ridiculous). Also note that the rules do not say you can coordinate fire (i.e. add damage) from multiple weapons.

[KarmaInferno]

Personally, I don't think multiple detonations should stage their damage up all that much. There is a point where adding another grenade in isn't going to make THAT much difference.

However, it certainly should make it harder to both avoid and resist that damage. Not sure how to model that, though, without requiring unwieldy amounts of dice tests.



-k

[Ramorta]

Just bringing this back so we remember where we got the 1920 DV. can we ask the guys working on shadowrun to tweak the rules so that this actually works? It's already close enough that it doesn't really matter. Additionally, the looks on your team mates faces when they realize you did enough damage to destroy a battalion of tanks, AND used 240 grenades in 3 seconds? Priceless.

P.S. I think the resource cost for that combat turn would be about 4800 NuYen.

Those numbers were asuming that MRSI worked while you were on full auto.
Using only the grenade stacking rules, you would end up with 8+(4x59) = 244 damage per pass, 976 per round.
Also with the new rules from War!, you can configure a mini-grenade to detonate on contact, adding net hits to your attack to increase damage against that specific target.

[longbowrocks]

Those numbers were asuming that MRSI worked while you were on full auto.
Using only the grenade stacking rules, you would end up with 8+(4x59) = 244 damage per pass, 976 per round.
Also with the new rules from War!, you can configure a mini-grenade to detonate on contact, adding net hits to your attack to increase damage against that specific target.

About that. Can you really use a full auto long burst with each of your six hands once per initiative pass? That makes it sound like you get one complex action per weapon, rather than per IP.

[Yerameyahu]

If you have to ask, you're not munchkinning hard enough.

[Stahlseele]

Suppressive Fire with them.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Suppressive Fire with them.

Suppressive FIre in a 360 Degree Arc around you... That would be imnpressive indeed...

[Stahlseele]

Aside from you standing in the center of the blastwaves around you, if you're not lucky ^^

[Ramorta]

Aside from you standing in the center of the blastwaves around you, if you're not lucky ^^

One more reason to be a troll! A limp wristed elf can't possably be awesome enough to stand in the middle of a ring of fire, and survive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

One more reason to be a troll! A limp wristed elf can't possably be awesome enough to stand in the middle of a ring of fire, and survive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

Heh... Too True...

[Stahlseele]

True . . True . .

[ggodo]

Longbow, stop giving your GM ideas. You guys should fear what lies behind locked doors, because now it might be this.

[longbowrocks]

@ggodo Speaking of which, take a look at my most recent post on the "Building Binky" thread.

[ggodo]

@ggodo Speaking of which, take a look at my most recent post on the "Building Binky" thread.

Been watching that, just know that it's far less fair to you guys if binky comes out than is hexasuppression shows up. Hex at least needs to reload.

[Glyph]

Yeah, the should be in the main book under "grenades, rockets, and missiles, but I can only find handheld grenades.

They don't have a separate entry, just a note in the text under GRENADES, ROCKETS, AND MISSILES, that they have the same cost and effects as standard grenades.