Non shiva-arms trollBow, I felt bad about the Uber Troll Bow topic, so here's a better one& Options

[longbowrocks]

You're on your way to making Bear Who Walks Through Walls.
I don't recall how high his damage vs. barriers was, but it was high enough that (even with the melee attack = complex action RAW rule that some people don't like) he could dig through reinforced concrete as fast as a human's walking speed (assuming a 1m x 1m hole).

Troll Bearshifter Adept with Smashing Blow and Critical Strike and tons and tons of strength.

This sounds worth it. But only for a one shot or something.

[longbowrocks]

You're on your way to making Bear Who Walks Through Walls.
I don't recall how high his damage vs. barriers was, but it was high enough that (even with the melee attack = complex action RAW rule that some people don't like) he could dig through reinforced concrete as fast as a human's walking speed (assuming a 1m x 1m hole).

Troll Bearshifter Adept with Smashing Blow and Critical Strike and tons and tons of strength.

Yeah, I looked through this, but I can only get up to 34 DV vs structures. I need about 1,500 DV to do what you are suggesting.
structure rating = boxes to destroy 1 square meter chunk about 10 cm thick
-> reinforced concrete rating = 15
-> human walking rate = 10 m
-> 10m/10cm = 100
-> 100 * 15 = 1,500.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

3) I saw that you could ready a large number of throwing weapons per round, but damage wise, and actually throwing them, they seemed to be a waste of time. Did I miss something?

Indeed you did, since thrown weapons are a simple action. My Throwing Master starts around 10-11P in damage and just gets better.

[Stahlseele]

And now for the kicker: use grenades as throwing weapons. do damage from the thrown projectile, then it goes boom.
grenades make EVERYTHING better!

[Yerameyahu]

I won't repeat it here, but don't forget to to apply everything *else* to that grenade, including anchored spells (money is no object!).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I won't repeat it here, but don't forget to to apply everything *else* to that grenade, including anchored spells (money is no object!).

Only for the Corps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Blade]

If you can get a character with enough recoil compensation to actually fire them all

Drone body, no recoil. Problem solved.

[KarmaInferno]

And now for the kicker: use grenades as throwing weapons. do damage from the thrown projectile, then it goes boom.
grenades make EVERYTHING better!

Why stop at grenades?





-k

[Stahlseele]

can not watch, am in germany, sony is a dick.

[longbowrocks]

Indeed you did, since thrown weapons are a simple action. My Throwing Master starts around 10-11P in damage and just gets better.

I don't have the book on me right now, but IIRC, it takes a simple action to "throw a weapon". Is throwing all of them for one action a house rule?

I won't repeat it here, but don't forget to to apply everything *else* to that grenade, including anchored spells (money is no object!).

I see a lot about anchoring spells. Doesn't that cost karma?

can not watch, am in germany, sony is a dick.

Sony in Germany = Chinese "government" in China?
What are they doing?

[Stahlseele]

Or MGM if it's not Sony.
This Video contains content of "insert dick here" and is not watchable from your country

[longbowrocks]

Ah.

[Draco18s]

Yeah, I looked through this, but I can only get up to 34 DV vs structures. I need about 1,500 DV to do what you are suggesting.
structure rating = boxes to destroy 1 square meter chunk about 10 cm thick
-> reinforced concrete rating = 15
-> human walking rate = 10 m
-> 10m/10cm = 100
-> 100 * 15 = 1,500.

Well....you did the calculations for one initiative pass....
And Bear was getting 42s pretty regularly, and it might have only been normal concrete.
I'll see if I can find Bobson's post on it.

[longbowrocks]

Well....you did the calculations for one initiative pass....
And Bear was getting 42s pretty regularly, and it might have only been normal concrete.
I'll see if I can find Bobson's post on it.

Thanks, that would be awesome.

[Draco18s]

Thanks, that would be awesome.

Turns out he hasn't posted it on dumpshock. Requested it from him directly, although he is offline and at work.

[longbowrocks]

No problem. Thanks for asking for it.

[Draco18s]

[07:47:37 PM] Bobson: You can calculate it: I had 12 strength, 6 ranks in unarmed combat with a specialization in claws,
[07:48:47 PM] Bobson: Martial arts to give me +1 DV unarmed and +1 to called shots, the full offense maneuver, and +6 to DV from adept powers, double damage against barriers, and -2 AP.
[07:49:07 PM] Bobson: Also gloves that were a 4-strength weapon focus.
[07:49:12 PM] Bobson: Calculate away.
[07:50:35 PM] Bobson: House rule was that the gloves would also work in bear form.

[Seerow]

I recall a few people disliking the troll archer because destroying tanks with arrows is unrealistic. I finally took the opportunity to read up a bit on the magic system in shadowrun, and I believe I have a build they will like even more.

Night begins to fall, and the MET2000 assault team is growing tired. They retreat to their encampment, comforted by the knowledge that no one would dare take on the monstrosity keeping watch over them: a fully decked out Aztechnology Cuanmitztli with 36 body and 30 armor. Well, no one except a troll with a bow, too much 'ware, and access to military grade software. Then again, what are the chances of encountering one of those in the middle of the Bogota rainforest? Suddenly, a creature bursts out of the jungle and rushes the tank! The entire camp watches, speechless, as the troll adept shoves his hand through the tank's armor and rips out its control system. The troll retreats before anyone can react, too cool a guy to look at the exploding tank behind him. The commander on site kneels to the ground in tears; "Damn you trolls! Damn you all to power gaming hell!"
There's no limit on critical strike, and it costs 0.25 per level.

While this has been shot down, I decided to take this idea to its natural conclusion. Unless I am grossly misinterpreting the elemental damage rules, or things that look like they stack actually don't, I have an adept who can take down the Cuanmitzil with a single kick. (btw what sourcebook does that come out of? I can't find any vehicle with over 20 armor)


Night begins to fall, and the MET2000 assault team is growing tired. They retreat to their encampment, comforted by the knowledge that no one would dare take on the monstrosity keeping watch over them: a fully decked out Aztechnology Cuanmitztli with 36 body and 30 armor. Well, no one except a troll with a bow, too much 'ware, and access to military grade software. Then again, what are the chances of encountering one of those in the middle of the Bogota rainforest? Suddenly, a creature bursts out of the jungle and rushes the tank! The entire camp watches, speechless, as the flaming troll taps the tank once to line up his strike, then unleashes a blinding kick ripping straight through the armor, and continue to watch in horror as the tank bursts into flames, and they all begin to cook inside. The commander on site kneels to the ground in tears; "Damn you trolls! Damn you all to power gaming hell!"


Punchy McEpic, Tankslaying Troll:
Base 10(12) str, 5 (6) Agi, 6 Magic

Qualities:
Adept [5]
Class 1 Surge (+10/-5) [5]
-Bone Spikes (+5)
-Elongated Limbs (+5)
-Critter Spook (-5)
Restricted Gear (Heavy Military Grade Armor) [5]
Martial Arts 4 [20]

In Debt (30,000) [-30]
Addiction (Mild) [-5]


Martial Arts:
Boxing: +2 DV Unarmed
Kickboxing: +2 DV unarmed

Maneuvers:
Full Offense
Set-Up
Finishing Move
Kick Attack
(4 others don't matter)

Bioware:
Muscle Toner 1 (Alpha)
Muscle Augmentation 2 (Alpha)
Reflex Recorder (Unarmed Combat) (Alpha)
Bone Lacing (Aluminum) (Beta)

Total Essence Cost: .7 bio, .56 Cyber, .98 total. 5.02 essence/magic remaining

Adept Powers:
-Critical Strike 5 (1.25)
-Penetrating Strike 3 (.75)
-Killing Hands (.5)
-Elemental Strike (Fire) (.5)
-Improved Combat Ability (Unarmed Strike) 3 (1.5)
Extra .5 to be put wherever.

Skills:
Unarmed Combat 6 (Martial Arts Specialization)

Gear:
Heavy Military Grade Armor, Modded with Strength Upgrade 3
Force 2 Weapon Focus Gloves


This is all doable within 400 bp, with some to spare to increase other stats and get a few other skills.


Before combat, Troll shoots up with Kamikaze, and uses a simple action to activate his flaming fist of doom. +1 Body, +1 Agi, +2 Str, +1 Will +1 Initiative Pass.

Troll has effectively 7 Agility, and 10+2(augmentation)+2(kamikaze)+3(armor) = 17 strength.


Unarmed Strike base DV: 9 (str/2) + 2 (bone lacing) + 2 (kick boxing) + 2 (boxing) + 5 (critical strike) + 2 (bone spike surge) = 22 base DV.

He is attacking the tank with Fire Fists, using the maneuvers: Set Up, Full Offense, Kick Attack, and Finishing Move.

He has 3 Reach (1 troll, 1 elongated limbs, 1 kick attack).

So he rolls: 6 (skill) + 7 (agility) + 1 (reflex recorder) +2 (specialization) + 3 (adept power) +3 (reach) + 2 (all out attack) + 2 Weapon Focus = 26 dice average 8 hits (trunctuated rather than rounded up here) on his set up.



He then transitions into finishing move, adding the 8 hits from setup to the finishing move. This finishing move is a called shot, sacrificing 4 dice for +4 DV. Now rolling 30 dice, he gets an average 10 successes, for a DV of 36.

Tank has 36 body and 30 armor. Since the attack is an fire elemental attack, it is resisted with half impact armor. Tank's effeective armor against the attack: 30/2 - 3 = 12.

Tank rolls 48 dice to resist, resists on average 16, leaving 20 damage unmitigated.

Tank then rolls twice it's armor against the fire to avoid catching on fire. 60 dice vs DV 36, 20 successes, failure. Tank catches on fire for 16 base fire damage. That 16 damage adds with the 20 damage from the initial hit, causing 36 total damage. Tank has (36/2 + (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) = 26 boxes of health, and is now scrap.


Note: If you want to argue the tank has fire resistance (which would take us just outside of one hit kill range), with that extra .5 power points, pick up Acid Fist instead, does the same damage, but rather than doing the secondary attack instantly for a little less damage every extra turn it does the full 36 DV again, for a full 36 turns, or until they can wash off the entire tank, which is going to take more than the 3 seconds they have for it to be eaten through completely, because the second round's hit has enough damage to kill it.

And with 10 boxes of overkill damage, we could honestly take out the aggressive assault/set-up/finishing move, and be able to do this every turn without the no defending penalty.

[longbowrocks]

[07:47:37 PM] Bobson: You can calculate it: I had 12 strength, 6 ranks in unarmed combat with a specialization in claws,
[07:48:47 PM] Bobson: Martial arts to give me +1 DV unarmed and +1 to called shots, the full offense maneuver, and +6 to DV from adept powers, double damage against barriers, and -2 AP.
[07:49:07 PM] Bobson: Also gloves that were a 4-strength weapon focus.
[07:49:12 PM] Bobson: Calculate away.
[07:50:35 PM] Bobson: House rule was that the gloves would also work in bear form.

so that's... an average of 44 DV?
STR = 12+4 = 16
unarmed DV = (16/2)+2(claws)+1(martial art)+6(adept) = 17
average roll = 6?(AGI)+6(unarmed)+2(specialization) = 14 = 5(average)
44 DV vs 15(structure) - 2(AP) = 44 vs 13 = 30 centimeters per attack. Much better than I had. The most effective approach would be to somehow reduce the rating further. Armor debonder?

[ggodo]

Most tanks aren't made from Bondo. Also, WAR! seems to be full of crazy stuff.

[KarmaInferno]

can not watch, am in germany, sony is a dick.

Oh. Huh. Well, it was a clip of Liberty Prime from Fallout 3 hucking nuclear bombs like they were footballs. The American kind, not the round type.

Does this link work?



-k

[Seerow]

Most tanks aren't made from Bondo. Also, WAR! seems to be full of crazy stuff.

I don't get it, what does Bondo have to do with anything?

And I take it that means the tank is in 'WAR!'? I really should get my hands on that :/

[longbowrocks]

Wow Seerow. That is proper power gaming in all its glory.

[Seerow]

Wow Seerow. That is proper power gaming in all its glory.

I'm just waiting for someone to tell me some of those modifiers don't stack, or elemental strike doesn't work that way.


I'm pretty sure I played it by the book (nothing in the book says any of the modifiers I picked up don't stack, even the dual martial arts talents explicitly stack, which surprised me), but I don't read the errata/faq, which could ruin it. Also I'm not 100% positive on the elemental effects, because it seems like elemental strike is -really- powerful for a .5 cost (especially compared to say distant strike which is a full 1 point for a far worse if flavorful effect). I was tempted to pick up the "walk through walls" power, but that one was also a full point, way too cost inefficient, but would lead to an average 72 DV vs walls. Maybe after initiating once or twice it'd be worth it.

[longbowrocks]

I haven't had a chance to look this up yet. It looks awesome though.