Non shiva-arms trollBow, I felt bad about the Uber Troll Bow topic, so here's a better one& Options

[longbowrocks]

ITS Gonryu from WAR already has FA mode. Where are the rules about damage stacking? I kind of want to try throwing 6 clusters simultaneously.

[Stahlseele]

ITS Gonryu from WAR already has FA mode. Where are the rules about damage stacking? I kind of want to try throwing 6 clusters simultaneously.

war! page 140 i think.

[longbowrocks]

ty. I found the grenade stacking rules just now, which reminded me of my question. I came back here and there was the answer! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Stahlseele]

It's what we do. Well, that and squabble over technicalities of the same 50 things again and again ^^

[Ramorta]

And a suitcase nuke is 130 DV.
I wasn't talking about MRSI, but rather using one grenade launcher per hand. I guess you can use assault cannons in each hand, heavy weapons in general should be applicable.
Then again, MRSI only supports two rounds for adding. Are you using a different section of the rules?

The question is then if you can fire in full auto while using MRSI or not. Do you roll for every second grenade? Or are you limited to single-shoting 12 times for 6 MRSI attacks?

[Stahlseele]

You don't NEED MRSI with the overlapping grenade blast rules . .

[Ramorta]

You don't NEED MRSI with the overlapping grenade blast rules . .

True.

[longbowrocks]

The question is then if you can fire in full auto while using MRSI or not. Do you roll for every second grenade? Or are you limited to single-shoting 12 times for 6 MRSI attacks?

I agree with Stahl. I guess if you really want to you could milk it for all it's worth. I would probably treat the first full auto burst as attack #1, and use the overlapping blast rules for that, the do the same for attack #2 and add the results. Then again that doesn't net you anything special since it takes 2 IPs anyway.
if you treat every pair of two shots as a MRSI attack, you can basically increase your damage by 100% since the extra grenade DVs aren't at 50% power.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You could level a building with damage like that. ((Keep in mind, that the printed stats for a THOR shot is only 30P.))

Keep in Mind that the Thor Shot's Damage code is for targets outside of the Primary Blast Radius, which is a 200 Meter Radius, IIRC. Anything within the Primary Blast Radius is totally incenerated. Anything outside of the Blast radius suffers the 30p Damage code, as it reduces its effects from the PBR.

[longbowrocks]

So how do grenade launchers work? Here's how it looks to me so far:

• can't use frag grenades or any of those other nifty things in the core book.
• relating to above: can only use mini grenades.
• mini grenades have DV 8 and blast radius 10m, with no fall off damage. That is to say, damage is binary depending on whether you're in the blast radius.

Am I right so far?

[Stahlseele]

So . . what happens to a Target that gets hit with 1920 DV worth of grenades?
And if the blast goes down by 1 per meter, then this is a blast radius of almost 2 kilometers too . .
it is STILL more than both the nuke and the thor shot, if i am not missing something here O.o
and remember, if you use this against one building, you get CHUNKY SALSA in Capital Scale from the first building that managed to withstand the original Blast too . .

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So . . what happens to a Target that gets hit with 1920 DV worth of grenades?
And if the blast goes down by 1 per meter, then this is a blast radius of almost 2 kilometers too . .
it is STILL more than both the nuke and the thor shot, if i am not missing something here O.o
and remember, if you use this against one building, you get CHUNKY SALSA in Capital Scale from the first building that managed to withstand the original Blast too . .

See, I would not inflate the Blast Area (Ludicrous Idea). That does not happen with Grenades all that much. Even when you have a bunch of them go off together. The Chunky Salsa effect will obviously be an issue, but not too far outside of what would have been a normal blast radius. In reality, you will get 60 Grenades going off with their own blast radius, and where they overlap, the damage will increase slightly. What you won't get is a Pocket Nuke.

[longbowrocks]

So . . what happens to a Target that gets hit with 1920 DV worth of grenades?
And if the blast goes down by 1 per meter, then this is a blast radius of almost 2 kilometers too . .
it is STILL more than both the nuke and the thor shot, if i am not missing something here O.o
and remember, if you use this against one building, you get CHUNKY SALSA in Capital Scale from the first building that managed to withstand the original Blast too . .

>>if you use this against one building, you get CHUNKY SALSA in Capital Scale from the first building that managed to withstand the original Blast too . .
I love you guys.

Anyway, I think the blast decrement would be applied to each grenade separately, don't you?

[Stahlseele]

*snickers*
still, you get chunky salsa of the grenades going off immediately too.
so if you do this in a building, you go from 0 to building flattened in seconds.
Oh, hey, wait a second. remote detonators for grenades, have them explode in the air, use the EARTH ITSELF for the chunky salsa effect.
they did that with the 2 japan nukes too.

[longbowrocks]

Oh my god. if the walls are strong enough, and only one meter away from your target on either side, a frag grenade has 42 DV. Two meters total to get from the target to the wall and back = 12+10+8+6+4+2 = 42.
Let's try that with minigrenades, assuming the same -1DV/m blast radius.
per grenade: 8+6+4+2 = 20 DV
10 grenades, and all subsequent do half damage, so 20 + 9*10 = 110 DV = Pocket Nuke!
even without the chunky salsa, if everything hits spot on, it's 44 DV.

keep in mind this is once per initiative pass, and you can start from creation with the ITS Gonryu + lots of mini-grenades.

Remind me: why do people think the bow is unbalanced? More seriously, could someone remind me where the stats for mini-grenades are?

[Draco18s]

Actually, you wouldn't get Chunky Salsa with that blast. You apply the damage to the barrier, if the barrier is destroyed, the blast doesn't reflect.

[Stahlseele]

So . . what . . you get the complete 1920 Damage(or whatevr) and it's all inside the 10m blast radius of the original mini grenade?
Congratulations, we have gone from Nuke to anti-matter bomb which simply annihilates ANYTHING in that 10m circle and then completely stops O.o

[longbowrocks]

Actually, you wouldn't get Chunky Salsa with that blast. You apply the damage to the barrier, if the barrier is destroyed, the blast doesn't reflect.

Ah, I was doing it per grenade, and noticed that frags wouldn't destroy any barrier under those conditions. since they stack, I guess there would be zero chunky salsa.

[longbowrocks]

So . . what . . you get the complete 1920 Damage(or whatevr) and it's all inside the 10m blast radius of the original mini grenade?
Congratulations, we have gone from Nuke to anti-matter bomb which simply annihilates ANYTHING in that 10m circle and then completely stops O.o

Yes. You have learned the secret. We can no longer allow you to walk free. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

[Glyph]

who would pick up a bow in that case?
<snip>
In short, if the bows lose both their high max rating and MRSI, then they're inflexible (more so than they already are), a huge BP drain, and have AP capabilities similar to sport rifles (below snipers and assault cannons).

That's pretty much how it ought to be, in my opinion. Bows should be harder to use and somewhat less effective than modern firearms.

Not every option in the game should be equally optimal. For example, if someone wants to play a mundane without any augmentations, and only average Attributes and skills, then that person should expect their character to be less effective, and more of a challenge to play.

I also think options in the book should be scaled in relation to each other. I dislike empathy software partly because it is overpowered for what it purports to do. Six dice - that is the equivalent of glamour and maxed-out kinesics, combined. That's the same reason why I dislike bows that outperform assault cannons.

[Stahlseele]

Yes. You have learned the secret. We can no longer allow you to walk free. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

Heck, supply me with coke and pizza and i won't even try . . .

[longbowrocks]

That's pretty much how it ought to be, in my opinion. Bows should be harder to use and somewhat less effective than modern firearms.

Not every option in the game should be equally optimal. For example, if someone wants to play a mundane without any augmentations, and only average Attributes and skills, then that person should expect their character to be less effective, and more of a challenge to play.

I also think options in the book should be scaled in relation to each other. I dislike empathy software partly because it is overpowered for what it purports to do. Six dice - that is the equivalent of glamour and maxed-out kinesics, combined. That's the same reason why I dislike bows that outperform assault cannons.

Ok, your call. On my end, I like the bows in this game. However, if we treated the bows realistically, they should just be removed because they would be way too underpowered.

[Ramorta]

Ok, your call. On my end, I like the bows in this game. However, if we treated the bows realistically, they should just be removed because they would be way too underpowered.

Nothing is underpowered. Just suboptimal. Which isn't enough reason to remove it from the game. If it were, the only assault rifle we would have would be the Ares Alpha, the only sniper the Barret, ect ect. Having only 1 option to choose from is boring. Even if it is the best.

[longbowrocks]

Nothing is underpowered. Just suboptimal. Which isn't enough reason to remove it from the game. If it were, the only assault rifle we would have would be the Ares Alpha, the only sniper the Barret, ect ect. Having only 1 option to choose from is boring. Even if it is the best.

I'm not talking suboptimal, like power-gaming wise. I'm talking underpowered, like you see various firearms all over battlefields and domestic crime these days, but no one who's serious about inter-personal violence uses a bow (expect indigenous tribes in some places). It just doesn't have a place in that environment.

All in all, I wasn't looking at the stats in that case. I was effectively saying: "You guys want realistic bows? I admit those stats may be realistic, but they would be more so if we didn't have the weapon at all."

[longbowrocks]

Also, does anyone know where the stats/cost for mini-grenades are? Arsenal lied to me.