Chummer Character Generator Options

[StevenAngier]

I'm wondering where this is written as the effective Attribute is lowered and not a negative modifier added on it. Thus if you had Magic 5 and get it lowered to 4 and THEN want to buy it back to 5 you'd pay the price for 5x5 (the new rating) and NOT something like 5x6 (the rating you'd have without lowered essence) as Magic loss through lowered Essence is NO negative modifier. It LOWERS the current maximum and your current attribute level. You always pay the price for the level of Magic you EFFECTIVELY have.

[Dakka Dakka]

Exactly. The rules say nothing about this. Would you point me to the thread that gave this answer please?

[StevenAngier]

Anything that reduces a character’s Essence will also reduce Magic.
For every point (or fraction thereof ) of Essence lost, the character’s
Magic attribute and her Magic maximum rating are reduced by one.
A character with a Magic of 4, for example, whose Essence is reduced
to 5.8 has her Magic immediately reduced to 3 and her maximum to 5.
Further Essence reductions do not reduce the character’s Magic again
until Essence drops below 5.

There's nothing about a negative attribute modificator but about the rating itself. Once again - no modification but an actual lowering of the attribute rating. Thus any subsequent increases are paid with the price for the rating you effectively get, not the one you'd have to pay for without essence loss.

[ShadowWalker]

Maybe it's in the faq or some other place. All I can tell you is that's what I was told is how it's supposed to work.

[Nebular]

This is where it's a bit of a grey area. SR4A 68 says they lose 1 full point from her MAG/RES and the maximum is reduced by 1. It doesn't describe how this affects BP/Karma costs either during creation or improvement, and I looked through SR4A and the other sourcebooks today to try and find any reference as to how it is handled. The BP method of spending BP to raise MAG to 4 but effectively having a 3 makes sense. This would also mean then that if you're creating a character using Karma, that MAG 4 would cost a total of 45 Karma, giving you an effective 3. Raising it to 5 (effective 4) would cost a further 25 Karma. I think we're able to agree on that.

It makes sense (to me at least) that this method remains consistent and carries over to the improvement side as well. During your career, improving MAG 4 -> 5 normally costs 25 Karma and would give you an effective 4. If you instead said that when your character is created and ready to improve MAG using the other method (MAG is now flat 3 instead of 4(3)), raising it 1 point would now cost you only 20 Karma, meaning that MAG is now 5 Karma/point less than it was in creation mode.

[StevenAngier]

It's the other way around. I see why you tend to use this way because all the other attributes use modificators by ware or magic.
Yet the BP method is strict in the way in which order you have to create your character. It does NOT state, that you have a rating of 4(3) then but you have a rating of 3. Your BP invested into magic 4 are lost. THIS is the price you pay for adding ware or losing essence. Not the (seemingly) saved 5 karma. Later on, during your carreer, bying back your magic rating to pre-essence-loss-ratings costs you effectively what the new rating is. You don't get more dice. You don't have ANY other means to increase your rating back to pre-lowered-ratings (even power foci cost a bag full of karma) than to pay the cost for the new rating twice (in BP first, karma afterwards).

With your method, mages are punished twice. First by the lost BP. Secondly by increased costs during the career. I don't think that is intended and revert back to what I've quoted. Your rating is lowered not modified.

[redwulf25]

Maybe it's in the faq or some other place. All I can tell you is that's what I was told is how it's supposed to work.

The FAQ, I understand, has nothing to do with how the game is supposed to work and should be ignored until they put out one that shows the people who wrote it have read the rules.

[ShadowWalker]

I would also like to point out that the excel spreed sheet on this site also would make the cost 30 karma. I just checked.
The spreed sheet has been around long enough that if this was in fact wrong it would have been changed long ago.

As I said I think this is wrong, and it's not the way my group does it, but it does appear to be the way that's been generally accepted.

So for me the optional rule would have only max decreased, both in creation and career mode. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ShadowWalker]

The FAQ, I understand, has nothing to do with how the game is supposed to work and should be ignored until they put out one that shows the people who wrote it have read the rules.

I disagree on dismissing the faq out of hand, it's official responses to questions asked. Now that is not to say that what is there makes sense, but it is still an official answer to asked questions about how something is supposed to work.
Unfortunately they don't answer questions often, and they don't update or fix answers poorly written.

[Nebular]

I've emailed Jason Hardy, the product line manager, to try and get some clarification on the matter. I'm going with the current implementation of 30 Karma until I get some sort of official word. So until then, if you don't agree with it, don't pump a Magician/Technomancer full of 'ware. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[StevenAngier]

I've emailed Jason Hardy, the product line manager, to try and get some clarification on the matter. I'm going with the current implementation of 30 Karma until I get some sort of official word. So until then, if you don't agree with it, don't pump a Magician/Technomancer full of 'ware. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks, that will finally settle this confusion. Maybe we'll see this also added into the FAQ. Besides that I GREATLY appreciate your willingnes to even discuss such issues. Kudos!

[Nebular]

It'd be nice if we could just get some sort of FAQ/Errata for anything these days. There is so much that needs to be fixed/clarified. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Oh well, onwards!

[Nebular]

More goodies!

Build 128

• added support for <adeptpowerpoints /> to Improvement Manager which grants additional Power Points to Adepts/Mystic Adepts
• added Additional Power Point Metamagic to cover the optional rule for Adepts/Mystic Adepts gaining Power Points in place of a Metamagic ability
• melee Weapons no longer throw an error when selecting them
• fixed an issue that caused the application to restrict underbarrel weapons to one per character instead of one per Weapon
• Weapon Mods can now be added to Cyberweapons
• added tooltip for the Contact Connection Modifiers button
• added tooltips for the link icons for Contacts/Enemies and Spirits/Sprites
• MAG/RES are now correctly affected by ESS loss
• added support for the optional rule to limit dice pools to 20 dice or 2 x (Natural Attribute + Skill Rating), whichever is higher (disabled by default)
• added a house rule that only reduces MAG/RES maximum from ESS loss

Oustanding Issues

• Better Update Window
• A.I. Inherent Programs
• Dice Rolling for Stat?
• Support for Mutant and Toxic Critters Conversion
• Copy Character Gear to Another Character
• Spare Clips?
• Cheat Sheets?
• Modular Electronics
• Multiple Capacity Items

[Nebular]

The only mods available r
silencer, lasersight(useless cause they already got smartlink preinstalled) and sound suppressors. 20th p.344

Those are Accessories, not Mods. Those were already available in the Cyberweapons category for adding Cyberware. The update added the ability to add standard Weapon Mods to Cyberweapons as well.

[McDougle]

Sorry! I saw that one to late. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I´m gonna delete the post right away.

Another thing i want to add though:

I tried to use chummer for gm´ing today and got extremely confused with all the characters i had on inside the program. This was slowing me down to an end that i have to suggestions.

1. Instead of opening every character in "fullscreen" or with thos stinky windows it would be great to see them as several "tabs" similiar to tabs inside firefox. This would greatly improve my sl-workflow!

2. I used the print-preview to view some charsheets today. It would be nice if you could hide those windows and still be able to modify stuff inside chummer(i guess this might prove too hard, cause you would need to constantly update the open sheet when info is altered). Another nice method would be to enable some kind of still "previewer" which would open a totally new programwindow/subprogram to view several sheets in tabs(or not? confusing myself... so many possibilities to improve this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ).

I would love to see such tabs in the near future cause i plan to use chummer as my gm-character-organizer of choice as often as i can! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

p.s.:

I would still love to see the possibility to add notes(maybe several subwindows in a popup like for the char himself in the charinfo tab) to individual contacts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif)

[ShadowWalker]

The when swapping qualities it keeps telling me I don't have any karma. Which is true. Problem is I want to swap one 15 point negative quality for 2 negative qualities, one costs 10 points the other is 5.
Can't seem to select multiple items in the list.

Found an interesting bug.
If you put in the Technomancer quality.
Increase your Resonance.
Remove the Technomancer quality it.
Add the Latent Technomancer quality.
Save to Career Mode.
Swap the Latent Technomancer for Technomancer to activate your Resonance.
Your Resonance is now set to a base of what you set it to previously. Free attribute points.
Removing a quality that gives either the Magic Attribute or the Resonance Attribute should set the attribute back to one or zero or whatever it was before you added it in the first place.

[ShadowWalker]

When adding the Aptitude Positive Quality it asks for the associated skill.
If I hit cancel instead of selecting a skill it still adds the quality but with no skill associated to it.

[cbass187]

Ya I am messing around with the Military Grade Armor and the Military-Grade Armor Enhancements Doesn't appear in the mod section when I try to mod the armor. Such as the Strength Upgrade, Quick Release or any of them

Source Arsenal PG 51

That and when making an AI it doesn't show all the Positive qualities that offered to them, This program is a gift from the gods.

[ShadowWalker]

Ya I am messing around with the Military Grade Armor and the Military-Grade Armor Enhancements Doesn't appear in the mod section when I try to mod the armor. Such as the Strength Upgrade, Quick Release or any of them

Source Arsenal PG 51

That and when making an AI it doesn't show all the Positive qualities that offered to them, This program is a gift from the gods.

It only lists the qualities that are listed on page 89 of the Runners Companion. Although there are additional ones listed in Unwired the ones there do not have a cost associated with them and so are NPC only, which might be useful to add as NPC only or some such.

[Nebular]

Modular Electronics has finally been taken care of! (and some prep-work for exporting chunks of a character to PACKS) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Build 130

• multiple windows now appear as a series of tabs to make finding and switching between open character easier
• Condition Monitor penalties are now applied to all Initiative scores in Career Mode
• losing access to the MAG or RES special Attributes now resets their values back to the Metatype minimum in Create Mode
• canceling an Improvement dialogue now rolls back all of the Improvements that would have been created by the selected item and prevents the triggering item from being added to the character
• added System to list of Vehicle Modifications
• Vehicles are now limited to +2 improvements to Response, System, Firewall, and Signal unless they have the Modular Electronics Vehicle Modification
• added support for <selectmartialart /> to PACKS
• added support for <lifestyles /> to PACKS

[Nebular]

It only lists the qualities that are listed on page 89 of the Runners Companion. Although there are additional ones listed in Unwired the ones there do not have a cost associated with them and so are NPC only, which might be useful to add as NPC only or some such.

Yeah, I was unsure of how to handle this at the time. Since they're listed with the sample A.I. Critters (and possibly only intended for them), I think what I'll end up doing is entering them as 0 BP Qualities and letting players/GMs decided whether or not they can be applied to a given A.I.

[ShadowWalker]

Yeah, I was unsure of how to handle this at the time. Since they're listed with the sample A.I. Critters (and possibly only intended for them), I think what I'll end up doing is entering them as 0 BP Qualities and letting players/GMs decided whether or not they can be applied to a given A.I.

Could also make an AI critter and have them as part of what the critter can take.

[Gwynfallan]

I understand updating and improving Chummer is an on-going process (and can't thank you enough for your continued dedication), but decided it wouldn't hurt to ask a few simple questions that might be *facepalm* related rather than bug related.

1) Are there plans to include Composure, Judge Intentions, Lift/Carry, or Memory (SR4 138) to the character sheets any time soon or will they need to be penciled in for a while longer?
2) Is there any chance you'll be fixing the Knoweldge skills (primarily Area Knoweldge) in the Data/Skills file to Knowledge skills? I correct the "el" transposition error back to "le" with each new release.
3) Were Massaging Liners (AR 46) skipped purposely or accidentally? Most everything else in Arsenal seems to have been added, but that one item seems to elude me as either a separate piece of armor or as an add-on.

[ShadowWalker]

During character creation you can put points into the Tasking Skill Group without having the Technomancer Quality.
Compiling, Decompiling, and Registering as well as the Tasking skill group should not be available unless the quality is taken.

The Conjuring and Sorcery Skill Groups are available without the proper quality having been taken.
Looks like the individual skills are being disabled but the groups are not.

[ShadowWalker]

I understand updating and improving Chummer is an on-going process (and can't thank you enough for your continued dedication), but decided it wouldn't hurt to ask a few simple questions that might be *facepalm* related rather than bug related.

1) Are there plans to include Composure, Judge Intentions, Lift/Carry, or Memory (SR4 138) to the character sheets any time soon or will they need to be penciled in for a while longer?
2) Is there any chance you'll be fixing the Knoweldge skills (primarily Area Knoweldge) in the Data/Skills file to Knowledge skills? I correct the spelling with each new release.
3) Were Massaging Liners (AR 46) skipped purposely or accidentally? Most everything else in Arsenal seems to have been added, but that one item seems to elude me as either a separate piece of armor or as an add-on.

Would be a good idea to list which items required fixing in the data file. That way Nebular doesn't need to go hunting to find it.