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> Six Armed Troll Melee Monster, Am I doing this right?
Bushw4cker
post Apr 3 2011, 03:21 PM
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"Spider"
Troll Changeling Physical Adept

Attributes
Body 7
Agility 4
Reaction 4(7)
Strength 7
Charisma 1
Intuition 4
Logic 4
Willpower 3
Edge 1
Essence 6
Magic 6
Initiative 8(11)
Initiative Passes 1(4)

Positive Qualities
Ambidextrous-1
Adept
Changeling (Class III Surge)
Elongated Arms
Shiva Arms
Shiva Arms
Martial Arts (Sangre y Acero)
+1 DV Blades

Negative Qualities
Changeling (Class III Surge)
Impaired Charisma
Critter Spook
Extravagant Eyes
Day Job (Masseuse) 2
Combat Monster
Simsense Vertigo
Mild Curry Allergy

Adept Abilities
Multitasking
Improved Reflexes 3
Improved Blades 3

Skills (80)
Blades (Katanas +2) 6(9)
Two Weapon Style
Off-Hand Training
Unarmed Combat 2
Perception 2
Infiltration 2
Etiquette 2
Dodge 4
Pilot Ground Craft (Bike +2) 1


Knowledge Skills
Massage 4
Trid Shows 4
Biology 2
Blade Design 2
Local Area Knowledge 3

Melee Weapons Reach Damage AP
Katana (Force 2 Weapon Focus) 1(3) 8P -1
Katana (Force 2 Weapon Focus) 1(3) 8P -1
Katana (Force 2 Weapon Focus) 1(3) 8P -1
Katana (Force 2 Weapon Focus) 1(3) 8P -1
Katana 1(3) 8P -1
Katana 1(3) 8P -1


I'm wondering if I'm doing this right?

With 6 Weapon Foci, Using Two Weapon Style Fighting character would get 30 dice for melee defense (Full Parry)
(Katana 11 x 2) + (Reaction (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) -2 (Offhand) +2 (Weapon Focus)
Character could attack up to 5 times a Combat Phase, splitting a 15 die pool. +/- modifiers
Each attack would get up to 5 bonus dice (3 Reach + 2 Weapon Foci)
Example assuming defender has 0 reach, and assuming defender does not have Watchful Guard ability.
Attack 1: 7 dice
Attack 2: 7 dice Defender rolls -1 dice
Attack 3: 7 dice Defender rolls -2 dice
Attack 4: 7 dice Defender rolls -3 dice
Attack 5: 9 dice Defender rolls -7 dice (4 + 3 Reach)

Character would get up to 20 attacks in a combat round
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Bushw4cker
post Apr 3 2011, 03:27 PM
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BTW I would never play this character or ever let any one of my players play this character.
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Medicineman
post Apr 3 2011, 03:33 PM
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Positive Qualities
Ambidextrous 5
Adept
Changeling (Class III Surge)
Elongated Arms
Shiva Arms
Shiva Arms
Martial Arts (Sangre y Acero)
+1 DV Blades

Negative Qualities
Changeling (Class III Surge)
Impaired Charisma
Critter Spook
Extravagant Eyes
Day Job (Masseuse) 10
Combat Monster
Simsense Vertigo
Mild Curry Allergy


only 35 Pts in Pos and 35 Pts in Neg Qualities
Its not quite settled (ruleswise) weather you need Ambidexterity 5 or 3 Times (for all your left arms)
I'm missing distinctive Style (at least 3+1 Level ImO)


with an unsettled Dance
Medicineman
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Ramorta
post Apr 3 2011, 03:33 PM
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At a quick glance, you can drop ambidextrous. You have Off-hand training, which makes it redundant. Could replace it with the martial arts quality (Arnis de Mano) and get another +1 DV to blades.
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Ramorta
post Apr 3 2011, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Apr 3 2011, 11:33 AM) *
[only 35 Pts in Pos and 35 Pts in Neg Qualities
Its not quite settled (ruleswise) weather you need Ambidexterity 5 or 3 Times (for all your left arms)


SURGE is a specific exception to the 35 BP limit on qualities.
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Medicineman
post Apr 3 2011, 03:40 PM
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not according to the German Runner Compendium (pg 77) which I consider as the more accurate Version
Surge III is a 15 Pts Advantage /pos Quality

with a positive Dance
Medicineman
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Ramorta
post Apr 3 2011, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Apr 3 2011, 11:40 AM) *
not according to the German Runner Compendium (pg 77) which I consider as the more accurate Version
Surge III is a 15 Pts Advantage /pos Quality

with a positive Dance
Medicineman


Page 73 RC -
Metagenetic qualities chosen in this fashion do not count toward the 35 BP cap on qualities, as
long as they remain within the totals defined by the Changeling
quality. If the player chooses Metagenetic qualities with a total BP
value greater than the given thresholds, the excess cost or bonus
BP count toward the character’s normal limits for qualities.
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Makki
post Apr 3 2011, 03:57 PM
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Metagenetic Qualities do not count. But the SURGE I/II/III quality does!
Adept 5, Ambidextrous 5, SURGE III 15, MA 5 sounds OK.

biggest fault: you can bind only [Magic] foci and may only have [Logic] foci active at the same time.
Edit: Two Weapon Style, which is not called Six Weapon Style btw, works with range 0 and 1 only
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Medicineman
post Apr 3 2011, 03:58 PM
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The 30 Points you get for Surge III do not count towards the BP Limit (neither Do the Neg 15 Pts Surge qualities) shur, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
BUT the Package Itself counts toward the Limit
Consider Surge a "bag " with 30 Pos and 15 negative Surge Points.The Bag costs 5/10/15 Points

He who dances in a Bag
Medicineman
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Ramorta
post Apr 3 2011, 04:00 PM
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Right, he still has to pay the 15 BP for SURGE. However, he's not over points on his qualitys which is what I was trying to point out.

EDIT: Running the math - SURGE III (15) + Ambidexterity (5) + Adept (5) + Martial Arts (5) + Enlongated limbs (overflow 5 from SURGE) = 35
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Medicineman
post Apr 3 2011, 04:13 PM
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I count 50 positive Points :
5 x Ambidexterity (= 25 Pts)
Adept
15 Pts for Surge III
and MA Lvl 1
--------
30 Pts in Neg Surge = 15 Pts neg
Plus
Day Job (Masseuse) 10
Combat Monster
Simsense Vertigo
Mild Curry Allergy

with a definitely positive Dance
Medicineman
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Bushw4cker
post Apr 3 2011, 04:19 PM
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Bah your right about the Logic and Foci, I totally forgot about that. I was wondering more about the combat aspect of he character, making sure I had my rules right.

Ambidexterity 5 means five points spent, that is for first set of arms
Off hand training is for second set of arms assuming that since you need to buy Ambidexterity multiple times for Shiva Arms, each time for a different set
Upper Right Arm and Upper Left Arm are Ambidextrous
Middle Right Arm and Middle Left Arm ...Off-Hand Training
Lower Right Arm and Lower Left Arm. normal so -2 dice to 2 weapon fighting style
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Summerstorm
post Apr 3 2011, 04:25 PM
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WAITWAITWAIT...

Only one "Ambidexterity?". IF you want to fight with all arms without penalty you need to buy it once PER extra-ARM. (As pointed out in the description for Shiva Arms) That is 5x5= 25 points for that alone. Do you still got enough points for your Surge and martial qualities? NO.

Also you are burning so many points on being so incredible powerful in melee (but more prone to glitches than an usual melee-expert) that it borders on useless. So yeah... that one dude gets 50 boxes damage? AND... 12 is DEAD.

Oh. and i don't think anyone lets you defend with all but one of your Katanas by using the maneuvre TWO Weapon style. It looks ridiculous and stretches any believability that you are able to expertly block one attack with FIVE swords. someone attacking from just ONE direction. (Blocked is blocked).

Overall i have nothing against a bit shiva-arms madness. (I myself designed a Gunslinger with four arms for fun). But you CAN go too far *g*.

See ya.
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Ramorta
post Apr 3 2011, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Apr 3 2011, 12:13 PM) *
I count 50 positive Points :
5 x Ambidexterity (= 25 Pts)
Adept
15 Pts for Surge III
and MA Lvl 1
--------
30 Pts in Neg Surge = 15 Pts neg
Plus
Day Job (Masseuse) 10
Combat Monster
Simsense Vertigo
Mild Curry Allergy

with a definitely positive Dance
Medicineman


His positive points pan out. He only has ambidextrous once (and the 5 behind it being the BP cost. Though I at least can see what your talking about now.)

As for his negitive qualities.

SURGE 3 = 15 BP for metagenic qualities. = Impaired Charisma (5) Critter Spook (5) Extravagant Eyes (5)
Which is legit.
Combat Monster - 10
Simsense Vertigo - 10
Day Job - 10 <---- again, he didn't take day job 10 times, its the BP cost.
Mild Curry Allergy - 5
Total = 35

Looks legit to me. Unless I'm missing something.

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Bushw4cker
post Apr 3 2011, 04:29 PM
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A character
with Shiva arms can take the Ambidexterity quality multiple times,
each time applying the quality to one of her off-hands.

Its worded weird but it means the same as per set of arms
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Medicineman
post Apr 3 2011, 04:35 PM
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OK, I misunderstood/miscalculated the Ambidexterity 5
and the impaired Charisma

with the wrong Dance
Medicineman
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longbowrocks
post Apr 3 2011, 05:10 PM
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WOW. I don't generally like melee since everyone is a glass cannon in this game, but this guy looks kinda fun.

btw: why won't you let anyone play this character? Melee is at a disadvantage in closing to begin with, and your dice pool per attack is miniscule.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 3 2011, 05:13 PM
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Aaah, i feel more and more at home again on dumpshock, now that these characters are popping up again ^^
By the way, has any of you heard the tale of Binky yet? *snickers*
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Ramorta
post Apr 3 2011, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 3 2011, 01:13 PM) *
Aaah, i feel more and more at home again on dumpshock, now that these characters are popping up again ^^
By the way, has any of you heard the tale of Binky yet? *snickers*


Didn't he die whilist trying to run through a forest?
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Stahlseele
post Apr 3 2011, 05:17 PM
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Binky CAN not die . . Even the Troll-Bow-Archer-Monster would have Trouble with that one i think ^^
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Makki
post Apr 3 2011, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE (Ramorta @ Apr 3 2011, 12:16 PM) *
Didn't he die whilist trying to run through a forest?

He ran into a Pixie Houngan, I heard.
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Ramorta
post Apr 3 2011, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 3 2011, 01:17 PM) *
Binky CAN not die . . Even the Troll-Bow-Archer-Monster would have Trouble with that one i think ^^


Even Binky can't be saved from the rediclous crash test rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Apr 3 2011, 05:21 PM
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*shrugs*
he's only in concept an equine hovertank, technically he is still a kind of character, not a vehicle, so the rules do not apply to him ^^
and if these were CBT rules, he'd never make it out of a forrest again and be stuck in there unable to move ^^
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Manunancy
post Apr 3 2011, 05:42 PM
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There's still a small problem : the character will have a hard time getting anywhere wlose to the law : I don't think there's even two troll-sized, six-katana-wielding runners (and even non-runners) in Seattle. Well, there might be one or two others in the whole UCAS. Which means tha teven the crappiest investigation will land him in the slammer (probably with a fast track for Death Row as a bonus) if he evers get caught by the cops for whatever reason.

That's going to bring in some serious problems with the law and should restrict this character to campaign where the cops aren't a concern. Note that even if playing only in the Barrens, the character will extremely distinctive and easy to locate for the buddies of whoever he happened to turn into kebab. Expect notoriety to pile up fast.

Baiscally it's a fun design, probably effective in it's niche, but not exactly what I'd call a playable character in most campaigns.
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Glyph
post Apr 3 2011, 07:22 PM
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The combination does not work the way that you envision it. You would need ambidexterity or off-hand training for each of your five "off" hands, or would suffer penalties. The current setup would only give three hands without penalties. You certainly couldn't apply four weapon foci to one split attack - you can only add a single magical focus to a test. And the reach and weapon focus would be added before splitting the dice pool (as per the FAQ).

Also note that the rules only address attacking multiple opponents in melee, not making multiple attacks on a single opponent. I would allow it, personally (treating it similarly to using multiple firearms), but it would be a house rule to make it so.
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