Tech-hating mage Options

[Machiavelli]

I want to play a mage that refuses tech and weapons as "mundane-humbug" and focuses completely on magic. This is his lifestyle and his conviction and above that, he also hates to be dependent on accessories of any kind. So he also wouldn´t ever rely in foci or talismans, neither would he use fetishes or learn limited spells. This is simply his "thing", to be as independent as possible from anything that somebody can take away from him. He, of course knows, that having one or more commlinks is an absolute necessity in 2070, so since he lacks the skills and the interest to take care for his tech by himself, he tried to hire a reliable hacker just for himself (he has several contacts that would fit). But the GM always complains that something like that is not possible, that nobody can refuse to accept the tech and everybody has to learn some relevant skills to survive in 2070. I don´t think that people are forced to accept the tech except of a very low niveau (bank transfers, showing ID in restricted zones) and that you might be looked upon like being a freak, but that´s it.

[Makki]

I want to play a mage that refuses tech and weapons as "mundane-humbug" and focuses completely on magic.

go read Harry Dresden (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . Although, actually, Tech refuses Harry.

I'm pretty sure, one can deny the use of tech, the same way as billions of people can barely afford a Meta Link. Hell, there's paper money still around, make him prefer getting paid cash (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
But isn't shadowrunning about that job, that makes you good and fast money, but it's too dangerous for most people? Why does he risk his life, if he doesn't need any material wealth? Unless you plan on investing all the money in blackjack and hookers. Maybe some no-gear survival vacations?

[wylie]

Your GM is right in a sense. To survive everyday life, you must learn basics of computers and such. It sounds like to me that your mage grew up normally, until it was discovered he had magic. From there, your mage could taken the opinion tech is bad, or any foci is a crutch. Maybe it was his teacher, or some life experience.
Let me ask a few questions:
Does the mage live in the woods?
How does the mage get around the town?
Without a commlink w/ SIN, how does the mage buy food?
What does the mage use for money?
How about a armored jacket?

from a GM's point of view:
Q1: If you live in the woods, then your lifestyle is squatter, which has its own qualities....
Q2: if the mage refuse to ride with in a vehicle, teams will stop having him on their team when they have to wait a half of day for the guy ot get acros town.
Q3: no commlink, no SIN? throw up all kinds of red flags
Q4: Corp script will raise eyebrows, and glass beads don't get much. Hmm, glasss bead may be considered tech too
Q5: armor spell can't stop everything

Roleplaying aspect the concept sounds good. I think you need to draw a line though. Refuse guns, or any form of crutch, that is a players choice and RPing it out can be interesting. No commlink or refusing tech is general will just get annoying and players will get tired of it real quick, asking you either change character, concpet, or not play as you are ruining everyone else's fun.

with the new Attitude book out, look into switiching the concept into a steampunk. You just refuse to deal modern tech as much as possible, except what is needed to make it through everyday life.
IMO

good luck with the idea

[whatevs]

I wouldn't say the concept was impossible (like your gm says), but it seems like it's not just a technophobe character, but a dependancyphobe character. This kind of concept has to be worth some build points during chargen as a psychological condition or something along those lines.

I see shadowrun as being about synergy, so i can understand your gm trying to move you away from the idea. But Labeling a concept as 'impossible' and moving on is weak on his part. There are definately lots of role-playing opportunities here, and lots of ways for the gm to f witchu also.

[Machiavelli]

It is not that he refuses tech completely, but he doesn´t take care of it like the GM wants. He has a commlink (even two) but he doesn´t want to keep them maintained nor does he do anything with them above the most basic things. This means he takes calls, writes PIN´s, pays things when he has to and turns them off/on if needed. But he is not doing resarches, he doesn´t cares if his porgrammes are up-to-date, how his persona looks, if his agent is fitting to his concept, if the infos he is showing when his commlink in online are "hip" or anything like that. He knows that he cannot completely refuse tech, but like we all, he pays people to do things he doesn´t want to. One thing that is definitely not going to happen, is that he is spending one single karma-point into any technological skill. That is what a hacker is for. The matrix is simply something he sees as a useless dream-world, far away from reality and therefore he deals with it only if it is absolutely not preventable. He earns a lot of money so why shouldn´t it be possible to have your own personal hacker that keeps programmes updated, checks for enhancements (processor, signal etc.) and builds new commlinks for him. If he needs a research....he calls the hacker. I offered him 10k/month but our GM said that no real good hacker does the job for that little cash....and i am not going to change the character-background.

[Yerameyahu]

You're both stubborn crazies, but that's okay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) None of the things you describe as 'keep the commlink maintained' are really maintenance, just weird fluff. You could certainly hire a *not* 'real good hacker' to be your secretary. Hell, a premium MSP basically does all this anyway.

But, as a shadowrunner, you're also a moron. You're just asking for someone to track your every movement, intercept your calls, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That's fine, too, cuz it's 'in-character'. Why doesn't your group just have a hacker, anyway? Incidentally, did you take 'Unaware' in computer skills, or just no ranks? Rank 0 is still very proficient, after all; Rank X is the one that means you're brain-damaged.

[Glyph]

I think you're forgetting how incredibly user-friendly consumer tech in the 2070's is. I understand you will have a very basic commlink, for functioning in society, and communications with the team. But if you're keeping up your lifestyle and your payments to your MSP, you don't really need to do anything with your commlink. Programs will update automatically, and you will get a message when it is time to take it in for an upgrade, or get a new one.

Your GM is right that an on-call hacker just to keep your cheap commlink upgraded is not a practical idea. But it is not a necessary one, either. Although one compromise - if your character has a contact who keeps his tech updated, it doesn't have to be a hacker, just someone with a computer skill of 1 (or even 0) who is not a technophobe.

[Yerameyahu]

Exactly: a not 'real good hacker', or the MSP (Advanced MSP included with Medium Lifestyle).

As long as you don't have a Computer skill of X… a *real* committed technophobe would, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Machiavelli]

No, i don´t have the "unaware" flaw and he is not lacking the technical understanding or the intelligence to do otherwise, it is just about lacking interest. Even nowadays where nearly everybody has access to internet, mobile phones etc, i know a lot of people without a TV or a mobile phone. It is weird, it is inconvenient, but it doesn´t make these people unable to work or live in a modern society. And if one of this people needs access to one of the "refused" services, i or sombody else, help them out. That is basically what i want this character to be...focused on the things he is interested in and if there is something he doesn´t want to do by himself, he hires somebody to do it. So he can sit down in his basement to do magical rituals, negotiate with spirits, make love-potions in his laboratory while his hacker is doing the matrix-stuff for him (check out for new magical rumors, magical sites and stuff that seems interesting). I really don´t get the problem of my GM, it is like you already said, some kind of Harry Dresden...and i think that is quite cool.

[Yerameyahu]

I dig it, you misled us with 'tech-hating'; you meant the 'too busy for secretarial work' type of person. I'm sure any number of scientists, artists, corp managers, etc. are 'too busy' to read blogs and take phone calls.

I want to reiterate that you keep describing a secretary, not a hacker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Or, as I mentioned, the free remote Agent 2 that comes with your Medium Lifestyle's Advanced MSP Services. Say, 'agent, Browse/Search for new magical news and crap', and he does it. Slowly.

[Machiavelli]

No, tech hating is still quite correct, but he differs between hate and need. And with research i mean more than a google-search the agent is capable of.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, make up your mind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Is it "just lacking interest" or is it "hating"? Is it "research" or is it "check out for new magical rumors"? I ask because it's very relevant to the answers we give.

[longbowrocks]

I understand the desire to be independent, the one man who IS an island. I think the commlink is still acceptable even with this character type as long as you have a party. Say the commlink is a spare that one of your team mates lends you for missions. If it get's stolen, whatever! It's only a few hundred NuYen.

[Machiavelli]

Well, make up your mind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Is it "just lacking interest" or is it "hating"? Is it "research" or is it "check out for new magical rumors"? I ask because it's very relevant to the answers we give.

Is it both. I thought the initial post was quite clear on that. Tech is mundane humbug and in addition something that can be taken away from him. Besides the fact that he dislikes the mundane world, his interests lie completely in the magic field. So tech is a "no-go" until the point you are forced to use it. If he can pay somebody to make this stuff for him, even better.

[TheOOB]

I want to play a mage that refuses tech and weapons as "mundane-humbug" and focuses completely on magic. This is his lifestyle and his conviction and above that, he also hates to be dependent on accessories of any kind. So he also wouldn´t ever rely in foci or talismans, neither would he use fetishes or learn limited spells. This is simply his "thing", to be as independent as possible from anything that somebody can take away from him. He, of course knows, that having one or more commlinks is an absolute necessity in 2070, so since he lacks the skills and the interest to take care for his tech by himself, he tried to hire a reliable hacker just for himself (he has several contacts that would fit). But the GM always complains that something like that is not possible, that nobody can refuse to accept the tech and everybody has to learn some relevant skills to survive in 2070. I don´t think that people are forced to accept the tech except of a very low niveau (bank transfers, showing ID in restricted zones) and that you might be looked upon like being a freak, but that´s it.

And why would this character be a shadowrunner rather than say a spirit healer in a small Salish village? Shadowrunners are creatures of the sprawl, and they need every advantage to survive their job. Why would a character who wants nothing to do with commlinks and guns and high tech security systems enter a career defined by those things?

And my 2 nuyen, the GM has a right to disallow a character concept that would create an undue amount of extra work for them such as this.

[Epicedion]

Your commlink is a basic necessity. It is absolutely vital to be able to communicate with your contacts to get jobs, to send updates to your team during legwork, and to communicate with your team on a run. You need it to manage your accounts, since cash is rare -- to receive payment and to buy things.

You don't need to hire someone to do all this for you, since the tech is supposed to be dirt-simple to use. Not that you'd want to hire some street-level hacker to "manage" your bank accounts and things, anyway.

Don't think of the commlink as the 2070 cell phone, or the 2070 laptop, or some sort of fancy PDA, or anything like that. It's necessary to basic survival in a city, unless you want to live in the Barrens and raid food trucks for soy bars, now with meat flavor.

So unless you want to be a loom-smashing Luddite, you'll pretty much have to use basic tech. You can dislike it all you want, but you do rely on it, so you can't just completely ignore it or pass the buck off for someone else to deal with.

[Blade]

Licing without a commlink in 2070 isn't like living without a television/computer/cell-phone in 2011. It's more like living without electricity.

[Manunancy]

Note : going to the logical extreme of what you're describing, the charcter is likely to have some trouble with hte rest of the group : by refusing to invest into naything even remotely technological, that's going to create a burden the others PCs wil have to shoulder in his stead. Things like vehicles, alarm-disabling tech, medkits and the like. Anytime one such item will be needed, it will be out of someone else's pocket.

I'd expect the other PCs to get somewhat grumpy about it unless you're willing to fork some of your earnings into a 'party pool' for just that sort of things. Especially since a mage has an easier time staying saving cash than a riger or sammie.

[Yerameyahu]

Machiavelli, the answer to my last question can't be 'both', because "hating" overrides "just lacking interest", and "research" overrides 'just check rumors'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It's like saying you're both miffed *and* furious. Hehe.

[KarmaInferno]

This sounds less like a character and more like a shtick.




-k

[Mongoose]

I don't see why its such a disruptive character concept. Any character who has the Gremlins flaw is pretty much forced to live as this character would. Indeed, taking that flaw would be a fine way to justify (or portray) his attitude. Many people who dislike technology will subconsciously sabotage their efforts when using it; for a mage, that could include literally jinxing himself.
If the flaw is valid, why isn't simply choosing to not use technology for certain things?

[Doc Byte]

Q2: if the mage refuse to ride with in a vehicle, teams will stop having him on their team when they have to wait a half of day for the guy ot get acros town.

Or buy him a horse... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[longbowrocks]

Why don't you just take two spells to get rid of all those downsides?
1) critter power: movement. This will give you a run speed of up to 150 if you aren't a troll or dwarf. Plenty to keep up with a car.
2) some spell to allow communication. I know there are a few, but I don't look at spell lists that often.

[longbowrocks]

Even better, you could consider your lack of tech a kind of life training that gives you one or two power points to invest in these "basic needs" spells.

[Yerameyahu]

What spell is 'Critter Power: Movement'? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)