[4e] Scumbag Buildpoints? Options

[Audious]

I'm gonna be running a 4E game, but I wanna run it with magic/metatypes being rare and unavailable to PCs, I also wanna run with lower essence, and they won't be purchasing wealth or equipment at chargen other than cybernetics.

They're both waking up in a one-person coffin in Hong Kong and will be taken care of once they get out.

How many BP should I have them start with? I want them to be competent scumbags, but not super-villains.

[Doc Chase]

I'm gonna be running a 4E game, but I wanna run it with magic/metatypes being rare and unavailable to PCs, I also wanna run with lower essence, and they won't be purchasing wealth or equipment at chargen other than cybernetics.

They're both waking up in a one-person coffin in Hong Kong and will be taken care of once they get out.

How many BP should I have them start with? I want them to be competent scumbags, but not super-villains.

No gear, no magic? Eh, 300.

[Nifft]

I have no problem wanting more than 400 BP even when designing a no-magic, no-'ware, cheaply equipped ganger.

I suggest 400 BP.

[Audious]

I have no problem wanting more than 400 BP even when designing a no-magic, no-'ware, cheaply equipped ganger.

I suggest 400 BP.

Yeah, but then all of those points just go into skills and attributes. 400 BP allows for some pretty nasty dudes.

[Tyro]

600 Karma. Maybe even 550. BP, even at low levels, allows you to min/max more than is really appropriate for a lower-power campaign.

[CanRay]

Hobo with a Shotgun?

[MikeKozar]

Would it make sense to give them the BP limit and a budget for cyberware separate from that? You have a 275BP character with 25k in chrome?

[Tyro]

Would it make sense to give them the BP limit and a budget for cyberware separate from that? You have a 275BP character with 25k in chrome?

Makes sense to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[longbowrocks]

Yeah, but then all of those points just go into skills and attributes. 400 BP allows for some pretty nasty dudes.

Dang. I was going to suggest 400 BP in the hopes you wouldn't catch that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
It brings me near tears when I hear about charGen nerfing like this. I might as well play an NPC.

[Doc Byte]

I'm gonna be running a 4E game, but I wanna run it with magic/metatypes being rare and unavailable to PCs...

Maybe you should dump BP-Gen and use the old school priority system found in RC instead.

[Cain]

Limiting BP is really a poor way to restrict power levels. If you want to do that, restrict pool sizes instead. Say, 10 max dice pool to start-- they can pull off some impressive things, but can't compete with the world-class just yet.

[MikeKozar]

Maybe you should dump BP-Gen and use the old school priority system found in RC instead.

Or even just pre-build some characters. I mean, if they're going to be waking up in a coffin hotel, why not go the amnesiac route as well and let them decide who they are on the fly. No backstory or contacts, but a set of very interesting skills. It has the advantage of giving you a balanced party with a driving motivation, especially if you dangle the Truth (and a little payback) in front of them as a long term goal.

[Tyro]

Or even just pre-build some characters. I mean, if they're going to be waking up in a coffin hotel, why not go the amnesiac route as well and let them decide who they are on the fly. No backstory or contacts, but a set of very interesting skills. It has the advantage of giving you a balanced party with a driving motivation, especially if you dangle the Truth (and a little payback) in front of them as a long term goal.

Bourne Identity meets Blade Runner! Hooray!

[CanRay]

Nice, I approve. I did something similar for my first Nas story, although it was only a few hours he was missing.

But what a few hours!

[Tyro]

Nice, I approve. I did something similar for my first Nas story, although it was only a few hours he was missing.

But what a few hours!

In Guild Wars 2, when you make a Norn (think 8 foot tall Viking shapeshifters) one of the questions you're asked is something along the lines of "I was at a moot (big party) and I..."

One of the options is "blacked out", and you have to find out what happened later in the game ^_^

[Whipstitch]

I'd be really careful how you do this. You may even just want to work with people on a case by case basis. For one thing, flat out restricting gear and skill ratings can be REALLY hard on human characters. Remember, orks & trolls are relatively balanced in shadowrun despite their point efficiency in large part due to the simple fact that as good as raw attributes may be it is often more effective to skimp out on a point or two here and there so you can afford some Magic, Programs or 'Ware instead. Without those as alternatives it's often best to just sign on for the full 220+ combined metatype/attribute total regardless of whatever it is you actually intend for your character to do. It's especially problematic if skill ratings are also capped since then humans can easily run out of ways to improve in their shtick well before they're close to running out of BPs. The end result is that you usually end up with a character that's just kinda crappy since you just don't really have the sheer number of points or attributes to qualify for well-rounded.

[Audious]

Or even just pre-build some characters. I mean, if they're going to be waking up in a coffin hotel, why not go the amnesiac route as well and let them decide who they are on the fly. No backstory or contacts, but a set of very interesting skills. It has the advantage of giving you a balanced party with a driving motivation, especially if you dangle the Truth (and a little payback) in front of them as a long term goal.

It's an actual coffin, not a coffin hotel, haha. And I was going to give them temporary amnesia from some sort of knockout drug. It's raining really heavily, they can hear some voices over the sound of someone digging down to them and their casket is slowly filling with rainwater. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, as far as the PC nerfing, it's not for power reasons. I want a setting where magic and metatypes are rare and cyberware isn't super-widely available or affordable. I'm just not following all of the pre-written fluff. My players enjoy a gritty game, also. Think Kane & Lynch more than GitS.

[Whipstitch]

I've found gritty is much more easily accomplished by tweaking the combat rules universally rather than trying to fiddle too much with chargen.

[Audious]

I've found gritty is much more easily accomplished by tweaking the combat rules universally rather than trying to fiddle too much with chargen.

Right, but I'm not running the canon Shadowrun world. Things happened differently for style reasons. Trolls and Elves and magic don't really fit the image I'm trying to get with this game.

[Doc Byte]

Right, but I'm not running the canon Shadowrun world. Things happened differently for style reasons. Trolls and Elves and magic don't really fit the image I'm trying to get with this game.

Did you think of simply playing in the late twenties / early thirties?

[Audious]

Did you think of simply playing in the late twenties / early thirties?

trollface.jpg

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Why not just switch to CyberPunk 2020 Then? Just Curious, as it removes the craziness of Metatypes and Magic. Seems like it would be a better fit, in my opinion.

[Audious]

Why not just switch to CyberPunk 2020 Then? Just Curious, as it removes the craziness of Metatypes and Magic. Seems like it would be a better fit, in my opinion.

I own the books for Shadowrun.

[Glyph]

The trouble with 300 points is that it really gimps you on Attributes, and leaves you so few points for skills that the characters will all take the same "essential" skills, giving them a dreary sameness.

You have eliminated metahumans and magic - the only way the characters can be effective is with cyberware. So limit that. Give them 400 BP. 200 BP on Attributes can give you half 4's and half 3's, meaning you will have to make some sacrifices even to have a 5 or two. Hardly superhuman. And they will have enough to spend on skills that they will have more variety (if you want lower power, then limit them to one 5/two 4's and other skills/skillgroups maxing out at 3 - limit the starting maximum, instead of giving them less skill points). Cyberware is what really makes characters effective, so limiting the availability, and how much they can spend on it, will give you the appropriately gritty characters.

[Audious]

The trouble with 300 points is that it really gimps you on Attributes, and leaves you so few points for skills that the characters will all take the same "essential" skills, giving them a dreary sameness.

You have eliminated metahumans and magic - the only way the characters can be effective is with cyberware. So limit that. Give them 400 BP. 200 BP on Attributes can give you half 4's and half 3's, meaning you will have to make some sacrifices even to have a 5 or two. Hardly superhuman. And they will have enough to spend on skills that they will have more variety (if you want lower power, then limit them to one 5/two 4's and other skills/skillgroups maxing out at 3 - limit the starting maximum, instead of giving them less skill points). Cyberware is what really makes characters effective, so limiting the availability, and how much they can spend on it, will give you the appropriately gritty characters.

Thank you for a sane post that wasn't, "WHY ARE YOU MURDERING THE SETTINGOMGZURPRETENDINGWRONG!?"

You raise a good point, though. I think I will do it this way. Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)