How do you build an adept on 5 magic? Options

[yesferatu]

So I was building an NPC adept and I can't believe how expensive the powers are.
I wanted:
Spell resistance so mages don't chew him up
Mystic armor so he wouldn't have to run around in a full armor suit.
Some extra actions an IP
Something to boost combat pools

I can't seem to make anything decent for less than double his magic attribute.
How the hell do you make a decent adept on less than 7 magic?

[Tanegar]

Same way you build any character: make sacrifices. Does he really need spell resistance right out of the gate? Likewise Mystic Armor (what's wrong with body armor?). Improved Reflexes, Body Boost, Agility Boost, and Improved Combat Ability are your core powers. Maybe Combat Sense (which is better than Mystic Armor anyway) if you have a power point or two left over.

[Seerow]

Thing about mystic armor: It stacks with other armor. It doesn't preclude wearing a full armor suit, it goes with it and makes it better, and doesnt count towards encumbrance. That's why it costs so much. It'd be really cool if there were a much cheaper mystic armor that did count towards encumbrance limit and didn't stack with armors that are normally nonstackable (ie stack with PPF, Helmet, form fitting suit, and shields, but not stack with an armored jacket or chameleon suit), but was only like .25 magic for 2 points of armor. That way you can get yourself basically the equivalent of an armored jacket (with a bit better impact) at the cost of 1 magic.


Anyway, aside from that tangent, don't be afraid to mix cyber/bioware with an adept. I mean, a synaptic booster is just so much more efficient than the imp reflexes power. Similarly Muscle Toner is way more efficient than Improved Attribute (Agility), especially if you're going above 6. Just as an example, an adept with 5 agility going for +2 agi and +1 reflexes takes 3.75 magic. You can instead give up 1 magic/essence, and get bioware to do the equivalent for 96,000 nuyen. This costs ~30 build points (10 for the lost magic, and 20 for the nuyen to afford the bioware), but saves you 2.75 magic that can be invested elsewhere. You could cut that resource cost down if you want to be cheesy and consider used bioware (ew), or bioware suites (I don't think this is something actually legit by RAW, but you could theoretically make bioware suites like cyberware suites, a pair of organs that are cheaper when implanted together). Doing something like that can get you Synaptic Booster 2 and Muscle Toner 4(restricted gear) for 2 essence/magic, and 86,000 nuyen. So you bump your bp cost up to 43, but now you have 7.75 magic worth of upgrades for 2 magic.

The other thing you may want to consider is the optional geas rule, that lets you cut the cost of any adept power by 25%, effectively turning a 6 magic adept into a 8 magic adept. Or a 5 magic adept into a 6.66 magic adept. It's not quite as effective as using bioware, but it can get you some extra points when grabbing effects that aren't replicated by technology.

If you really want to optimize, use your adept powers to focus on things that can't be done via the mundane, and use Mundane to make up the difference. Don't try to use magic to do everything, it's not feasible unless you want to houserule things a lot, because the adept powers as you noted really are inefficient in a lot of areas. They make up for this by giving access to abilities that are not inefficient, and are impossible for others to recreate.

[Dakka Dakka]

A bit of 'ware can also go a long way. Muscle toner and/or Synapic boosters are great for adepts, unless you want to have a purist.

IMHO Improved Skill is something you can take later as well. Whether you have 16 or 20 dice in your attack skill should not make that much of a difference in the first couple of runs.

[Whipstitch]

With Magic 5 it often pays to concentrate on a few powers that can be taken at high ratings-- which, frankly, is why I thought the caps put into place on many magical abilities was moronic-- or do not have a non-magical equivalent. And yes, being Adept in part means you're better able to make use of the things that are around you. Mystic Armor is a versatile all-around defensive bonus. It isn't intended as a good reason to run around naked in combat zone.

[Critias]

*sigh*

[Makki]

Spell resistance so mages don't chew him up
Mystic armor so he wouldn't have to run around in a full armor suit.
Some extra actions an IP
Something to boost combat pools

I always want that too, but at some point you just see that's not how an adept is meant to be. I recognized it, when reading through AH's first version of PACKS (don't know about Runner's Toolkit now), where the Adept Power Packages are really focused towaards one Aspect. An Adept is apparently supposed to be a specialist, I don't like it, either...
With some Karma, you can initiate and use the optional rule for 1 Power Point instead of a metamagic. That's about the third the cost of a Magic Point.
Putting a Geas on your powers frees up another 25%, but makes you an even more specialized specialist. Like being an awesome Investigator (Improved Senses and Social Skills, Enhanced Perception), BUT only during the night.

For Mystic Armor, I recommend this thread: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=34741

For NPCs, being a specialist is pretty cool, but Shadowrunnners need to be able to do a LOT!

[whatevs]

Whenever i build a new character, i start with a concept (infiltrator, face etc), then i list and prioritize the actions that the concept will be expected to perform. The first few chapters of runners companion are good for this. Finally, i build my character to have 12 dice in the important tasks. Thr table i play at has very well rounded characters, but this has always worked for me.

[Glyph]

It depends on what you want to do with the adept. Some common roles follow. Normally I wouldn't give such specific advice, but if you really want to know how to triage points when making an adept, here's what I consider the more essential stuff:

For a combat-oriented adept, get improved reflexes: 2 for 2.5 points, Attribute Boost: 1 for Agility for 0.25 points (it gives a good boost, and you can reliably soak the Drain. Higher levels are not worth it), and then either mystic armor or combat sense at level 2 or 3. The remaining points, or fractions thereof, can be used for improved senses/perception, or "flavor" powers.

For a social adept, you really only need 3 power points after getting some bioware that stacks with your adept powers (such as tailored pheromones, vocal range enhancer, etc.), although 4 gives you a more lavish assortment of stuff that is not strictly necessary. Get kinesics: 3, commanding voice, and then some mental powers (such as multitasking or eidetic sense memory) and/or improved senses/perception.

For techies, you will only need 2-3 points of magic for a mix similar to a social adept's, with improved ability in tech/matrix skills replacing kinesics and commanding voice. This is good, because things like adept hackers also have a high resource and skill cost.

For sneaks, forget it, there are so many adept powers that boost athletics and/or stealth that you will never start out with more than a fraction of what you want. I would recommend picking one aspect to focus on (parkour-like athletics, or super-stealth, etc.), rather than getting a hodgepodge of powers.

Martial artists are also hard to do. You need high damage, high dice pools, decent damage soaking ability, and multiple initiative passes. Sad to say, but this is one of those roles that usually takes some bioware and/or cyberware added to the character to really pull off. For a pure adept, you could just barely do it with hard-maxed Magic. Let's see now, improved reflexes: 2, attribute boost/Agility: 1, killing hands, critical strike: 6, penetrating strike: 3, and counterstrike: 1. Initiate and get improved ability plus mystic armor and/or combat sense as soon as you can. But martial artists, while fun, tend to be hyper-specialized in a niche role, so be aware of what you are potentially getting in to.

[Dakka Dakka]

I'd substitute penetrating strike for elemental strike

[bluedao]

I'd substitute penetrating strike for elemental strike

What he said. Penetrating strike 2 gets you armor penetration 2 for .5 pp, elemental strike can get you half armor ap and an elemental side effect for .5 pp . It's only disadvantage is the simple action to activate.

Mystic armor becomes a strategic option if you start mixing in Elemental Resistance (Digital Grimoire).

[longbowrocks]

You don't.
48 magic or bust. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Machiavelli]

Right. Playing an adept is fun, but not necessarily as a combat-oriented one. He is simply no match for a well-build sam. He has his niches, but "combat-monster" is not one of them. Martial artist, ok. Sniper, Gunbunny, ok. But gun bunny that also can take some shots? No. Martial Artist that can also shoot? Not really. Cyber outclasses adept-powers until you reach 10 magic or so. Before that, you will alway look stupid in direct comparison.

[Muspellsheimr]

A bio adept can be incredibly effective, but is expensive as hell & can difficult to pull off correctly.
A pure adept is virtually unplayable outside specialized noncombat roles (hacker, face, etc), but can be pretty damn effective in them.

I assume you are the GM as you said you are making an NPC. As such, I would suggest you take a look at the changes to adept powers in my house rules. Outside of a few relatively minor changes I have not yet had a chance to test, that section should be complete; just keep in mind everything is intended to be used with a hard cap of 7 (natural) Magic & 5 Initiation grades, allowing a Power Point as a metamagic (along with improving most of the adept-only metamagics). Despite that, most or all of the changes should still work fine in an uncapped game.

[Dakka Dakka]

I would only suggest using house rules if they apply to all adepts. Adept players may otherwise feel cheated, if those rules make the NPCs more powerful.

[ggodo]

What he said. Penetrating strike 2 gets you armor penetration 2 for .5 pp, elemental strike can get you half armor ap and an elemental side effect for .5 pp . It's only disadvantage is the simple action to activate.

Mystic armor becomes a strategic option if you start mixing in Elemental Resistance (Digital Grimoire).

Big fan of fire fists. It's likely the best way to get martial arts damage in.

[Seerow]

Big fan of fire fists. It's likely the best way to get martial arts damage in.

Acid Fists are pretty awesome too.

[James McMurray]

Big fan of fire fists. It's likely the best way to get martial arts damage in.

Seems to me sound and smoke are better, since they completely ignore armor. Sound is by far the nastiest since most people will be out of the combat if you just do 3 damage to them, and very few people walk around with sound dampeners turned on. Unfortunately it's also probably going to be fairly loud, but depending on the group it might be no louder than the blasting mage or the gun bunny's firearms.

[Doc Chase]

"High five!"

"..WHAT?!"

[Whipstitch]

I need to make an adept named Dark Smoke Puncher one of these days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

[Makki]

I need to make an adept named Dark Smoke Puncher one of these days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

somehow every other adept ends up a ninja

[Tyro]

What sane GM allows elemental strike to ignore armor entirely?

[Makki]

What sane GM allows elemental strike to ignore armor entirely?

those who obey RAW? there are other ways to hassle the PCs, if the GM feels the need.

[Tyro]

those who obey RAW? there are other ways to hassle the PCs, if the GM feels the need.

IIRC RAW is debatable on that point.

[Makki]

enlighten us (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
because "Armor has no effect, but sound dampers" and "Armor does not protect against this attack, but other protective gear might" sound clear enough for most