Adepts and Retinal Duplication Options

[Caadium]

I am working on an Adept that is something of an infiltration specialist. The problem I'm running into is how can I work to overcome retinal scanners.

Unless something has come out in a newer book that I missed, the only think for retinal duplication is in cyber-eyes. Perhaps the tech is sophisticated enough that the myriad contacts and such out there can not fool it. But what about magic; specifically adept powers?

Let's look at what an adept infiltrator can do:
Alter their skin tone and color by using Melanin Control;
Change their appearance, including perceived meta-type, using Facial Sculpt;
Modify, and throw, their voice using Voice Control. This alteration is good enough that the adept infiltrator would have a good chance of fooling top level security devices.

So, I would like input from the DS community. Should there be an option that does not require cyber-eyes? If so, what would you use or allow?
Do you let it be part of Melanin Control, using the same rolling mechanics from Voice Control? Do you make it part of Facial Sculpt, and use the disguise dice from there in some capacity to try to fool the sensor? Do you create a new power that allows a character to alter their retinal patterns? If so, do you use the same dice mechanic as Voice Control, or do you use something else? Also, if you create a new power, how much do you price it? Is it a static price, like Voice or Melanin Control, or is it tiered like Facial Sculpt?

Now, please do not say, "Just get the eyes. There is so much benefit to spending 1 point of essence on cyber/bio that there is no reason not to." From a min/max standpoint, that may be true. However that is not the point of what I'm trying to figure out. I'm working on a character that will be cyber/bio free, no matter what advantages min/maxing would get me.

[Glyph]

Some things should remain solely the province of technology, no matter how inconvenient it might be to certain character concepts. Retinal duplication as an adept power, I simply can't see. As a spell, I could see it, but as an adept power, no.

[Caadium]

Some things should remain solely the province of technology, no matter how inconvenient it might be to certain character concepts. Retinal duplication as an adept power, I simply can't see. As a spell, I could see it, but as an adept power, no.

That is an understandable thought. I tend to agree that some things should remain the province of one field or another.

If it is something that is purely technological then, should there be some hardware or device out there, obviously hard to find and generally illegal, that would work to thwart them? There are maglock passkeys, and cyber-eyes can have retinal duplication, there is even technology to fool voice analyzers, so why not some device that doesn't require implants?

Or, do you just by a pair of cybereyes with only that modification, but do not implant them. Instead, you carry them in your pocket and pull them out as needed? Or perhaps a Ruthinem Polymer hand puppet (or something similar) that you send the signal of the eyes you wish to duplicate to.

I just think there should be something other than implants on this one. It doesn't have to be magic/adept, but I'm shocked that there is nothing.

[Dahrken]

If you think about it, the powers allow the Adept to mimic something he can perceive (skin color, facial features, voice...) on others and on himself, so the fact that he cannot change his retinal pattern does not bother me much. But I agree, the rules lacks is an external device (or possibly a contact lens option) replicating the effect of the Retinal Duplication cyberware or Retinal Adjusters nanoware, doing what a Cellular Glove Molder does to replace Dynamic Handprints.

Cyberpunk 2020 had what they called a "thumb" : a handheld device with a false finger at one end, a false eye at the other and a small high quality sound system (for fooling thumbprint readers, iris or retina scanners and voice scanners respectively). I think such a device can be adapted easily to Shadowrun, say with a price tag of about 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) xRating and a problematic legality. It's less subtle than the implanted alternatives, but it can do the job.

[Yerameyahu]

Just get the eyes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Harr harr!

If you feel like it's not a game balance issue that retinal duplication is a rare, Forbidden, and expensive implant-only device, then you should indeed house rule that there's an Adept power or external device that does it. Seems like cheating to me, but it only matters that you have fun. I think Rating*500¥ is ungodly cheap, though; Retinal Duplication is 15000*Rating. (The Adept version should be appropriately expensive as well.)

If the GM wants to stop you, he can just use DNA biometrics instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Garou]

I think you can always manufacture fake lenses with the retinaprints, you just have to steal the data to do it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

You could do something like the moldal gloves for contact lens. AFB right now to suggest any cost of such a gear.

[Hida Tsuzua]

There are the Retinal Adjusters from Augmentation, but sadly that requires essence loss as well. The only other alternative I can think of is to have a decent hardware check and manually manipulate the devices. It's a Ratingx2, 1 Combat Turn Extended Test so you can be in and out in 9 or so seconds.

[Mikado]

Unless something has come out in a newer book that I missed, the only think for retinal duplication is in cyber-eyes. Perhaps the tech is sophisticated enough that the myriad contacts and such out there can not fool it. But what about magic; specifically adept powers?

Cyber-eyes are not the only answer. You can get nanoware Retinal Alteration too. They are in Augmentation and do cost .2 essence but you get to keep your normal eyes. What I don’t like is that there are no cyber/bio/adept abilities that change eye color. Chameleon skin or Melanin control only does skin color, fiber optic hair for hair color. You have to resort to contacts, which is a pain in the butt carrying 5 pair of contacts around. My current character is a hide in plain sight character like this so I have been looking through the books for months trying to work things out.

[Dahrken]

The retinal duplication can also be taken as a retinal modification, for 0.1 Essence only (versus 0.2 for the nanoware, which is also more expensive but probably harder to detect).

You can probably find skinlinked, color-changing contact lenses to save you the hassle of switching them manually.

[Mikado]

You can probably find skinlinked, color-changing contact lenses to save you the hassle of switching them manually.

Yes, I agree that color shifting ones would be better, I should have thought of that... They would not even need to be skinlinked for my character; technomancer with touchlink is amazingly useful.

[James McMurray]

Or, do you just by a pair of cybereyes with only that modification, but do not implant them. Instead, you carry them in your pocket and pull them out as needed? Or perhaps a Ruthinem Polymer hand puppet (or something similar) that you send the signal of the eyes you wish to duplicate to.

This. Or rather a piece of hand held tech that doesn't look like you're carrying an eyeball but does the exact same thing, costs the same, has the same legality, etc.

[KeyMasterOfGozer]

I don't see why you could make a cyberware eye that could do this, and yet somehow lack the technology to make an external device that can do it. The only possible reason to forbid this would be for a game balance reason, which I'm not sure I see, personally. In the cyber version, you lose essence, but in the external version, it is easier to get caught with the illegal device.


Edit: Can't you imagine from the Naked Gun movies... "I've got my father's eyes...."

[Yerameyahu]

Fair enough, as long as it's not going from 15000*R to 500*R. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It also means you can't walk in during business hours or anything (pretending to be legit), though I doubt that's a common scenario at all. Would a retina scanner maybe be available for both eyes at once, to increase security? Hmm.

[James McMurray]

Would a retina scanner maybe be available for both eyes at once, to increase security? Hmm.

Definitely, you just install two of them and force them to stay in sync. It'd mean the runner has to have two fake eyes (or the equivalent gadgets).

[capt.pantsless]

I don't see why you could make a cyberware eye that could do this, and yet somehow lack the technology to make an external device that can do it. The only possible reason to forbid this would be for a game balance reason, which I'm not sure I see, personally. In the cyber version, you lose essence, but in the external version, it is easier to get caught with the illegal device.


Edit: Can't you imagine from the Naked Gun movies... "I've got my father's eyes...."

I'd imagine that ultra-high security areas would combine facial-recognition software with the retinal scanners - i.e. not only do you need a human face attached to your fake eyeballs, you need to have the right face.

Otherwise the solution you suggest should probably exist.

[James McMurray]

Ultra-high would probably go even further: void, print, 2 retinas, and a pass card. From a convenience perspective there's not much difference between having to aay a passphrase and having to say it while your chin rests on the retinal scanner and your thumb on the knob is being read.

Extra-super-duper-ultra-high adds in a blood scan or even brainwave scanners.

[Yerameyahu]

Honestly, I think you're even overstating the rarity of what the book calls 'breath, cellular, or DNA' scanners. It could be GATTACA-style blood drops, or just breath or cheek swab.

So… yes, you can beat retina, but don't forget all the fun ways that a 'realistic' world would react. Security is always an arms race.

[Makki]

Guys. I think this discussion is overrated.
There are no more retinal scanners around in a realistic interpretation of the shadowrun world.

With Cybereyes being the most common body modifications all those Scientist (they all wore glasses 60 years ago, remember?) and Execs, who have to enter a secured area cannot be approved by a retina scanner without any retina...

[KeyMasterOfGozer]

Honestly, I think you're even overstating the rarity of what the book calls 'breath, cellular, or DNA' scanners. It could be GATTACA-style blood drops, or just breath or cheek swab.

So… yes, you can beat retina, but don't forget all the fun ways that a 'realistic' world would react. Security is always an arms race.

Bah! Security is a farcical arms race. In the real world, if you make people have strong passwords that change weekly, they will write them down on a sticky under their mouse pad. They have no choice, there's no way you can remember stuff like that. Just the same, if you put the kind of security on a door like what you are saying, then it will only result in the back door being propped open, because it's too much of a hassle to go through that riggamarole to take a smoke break.

Maybe you could have something like that somewhere where a very few people go very seldomly.

[Dahrken]

Fair enough, as long as it's not going from 15000*R to 500*R. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If we compare internal (cyber) and external (vision enhancement) options the price ratio is roughly 10 to 1 (Low Light 1 000/100, Flare Compensation 750/50, Thermographic 1 000/100, Vision Enhancement 1 500/100, Magnification 1 000/100, Image Link 500/25) - I guess the miniaturisation, biocompatibility, thermal management issues and thereliability required for an implanted system really drives the price up.

I agree 500 is a bit cheap (I didn't look at the price of the cyberware version and made a guess based on the glove molder's price), something like 1 500*Rating (and 2 500 for a multi-role device adding single finger fingerprints and voice emulation) seems OK to me.

[Mikado]

Bah! Security is a farcical arms race. In the real world, if you make people have strong passwords that change weekly, they will write them down on a sticky under their mouse pad. They have no choice, there's no way you can remember stuff like that. Just the same, if you put the kind of security on a door like what you are saying, then it will only result in the back door being propped open, because it's too much of a hassle to go through that riggamarole to take a smoke break.

Maybe you could have something like that somewhere where a very few people go very seldomly.

Like a data storage room (mainframe or server room) or a clean room where they research nanotechnology? You really think they will prop open a door to a room that contains nerve agents or biowarfare bacteria? I would hope that humans are not that stupid as to do something like that IRL though I am probably very wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
Those are the types of locations that should, would and do have these kinds of protective measures. I would not expect anything more than a maglock on 95% of office doors but that last 5%... Who knows what you would use to secure it and what is "contained" behind it.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Just the same, if you put the kind of security on a door like what you are saying, then it will only result in the back door being propped open, because it's too much of a hassle to go through that riggamarole to take a smoke break.

If you are running a hyper-mega-super-secret facility where your Evil Scientists™ take breaks to smoke, then you are doing it wrong.

[capt.pantsless]

If you are running a hyper-mega-super-secret facility where your Evil Scientists™ take breaks to smoke, then you are doing it wrong.

Exactly. Real evil scientists would simply smoke IN the lab, 'cause they're evil. Screw the Clean Air Act!

[Mardrax]

Real evil scientists have nicotine and caffeine producing chemical glands installed as the standard package.