[X] My Assistant

[Yerameyahu]

It doesn't really work that way in SR4, not for characters (i.e., non-cyborgs, non-cyberzombies, because those aren't PCs).

[longbowrocks]

You still need to notice me from 2 blocks away out of the massive amount of moving targets. We may not have even established LOS when my spell spots you (we could be on different streets). I am spotting you from 250 meters away and ambushing you without any chance of you even knowing I am there.

Throw in Shapechange instead of the Invisibility and now your fancy ultrasound thinks I am a pigeon hanging out with my pigeon buddies. Not as cool because I have to peck at seeds instead of sipping my coffee but technically even more difficult to spot.

I just looked up Attitude. Bone black makeup reacts to astral presence by changing color. If I pack some of that into a grenade, shapechange won't help much.

[Yerameyahu]

… so your grenade will change color when there's any astral presence? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not that there *is* any astral presence with Shapechange.

I'll admit, I haven't read any of the new stuff in Attitude. I assumed it was all worthless style crap. Sounds like they snuck some manatech in there, but doesn't sound very effective.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is an awesome idea. At creation, cyber yourself to kingdom come, leaving negligible essence. I don't really like cybering, but with that, you should be undetectable by assensing. Additionally, Shadowrun assumes the existence of the soul, so you could keep your heart instead of your brain (keep a logic processor or something instead) and be immune to mind control.

Nope... Only Cyborgs benefit from that. You can have a Street Samurai with an Essence of 0.00000000000000001 (which is lower than the Cyborg's essence), and you are still susceptible to Mind Control magics, and can be detected by Assensing. Sorry... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

In a similar Vein, my CyberLogician has less essence than a Cyborg does, though he is working on regaining some of that essence hole he recently created... Sucks to have such a low essence...

[ggodo]

This is an awesome idea. At creation, cyber yourself to kingdom come, leaving negligible essence. I don't really like cybering, but with that, you should be undetectable by assensing. Additionally, Shadowrun assumes the existence of the soul, so you could keep your heart instead of your brain (keep a logic processor or something instead) and be immune to mind control.

I'm not actually sure if they have full on brain replacement in Shadowrun. You could turn yourself into a drone, or play an AI, but I'm not sure how you're going to maintain your 'selfness' with the brain swap. Most of the headware stuff is designed to work with the brain, not instead of it. I think you need to keep your brain, because that seems to be where SR assumes the 'soul' to be.

[Yerameyahu]

Forget the soul, that's where the mind is. If you play a meatbag on life-support, that's not a character. At best, it's a vessel, or biodrone 'chassis' (no Pilot). If that meatbag is controlled by a computer (or anything else), *that's* the character.

[CanRay]

If you play a meatbag on life-support, that's not a character.

Don't let Peg catch you saying that...

[Yerameyahu]

I don't know what that means. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But I don't think the idea that a headless body isn't a character is a controversial one.

[Scyldemort]

As far as I can tell, Essence basically is the soul. Which is incredibly depressing, because Essence can be depleted by any number of things, from getting cybernetic implants to suffering traumatic injury to getting Essence drained. This seems implies that SR take on the matter is that yes, the soul exists, but it's not immortal by any means, and it probably dies with the body. Ghosts? Those are spirits which are either deluded or malicious, but they're certainly not deceased human beings.

Is that interpretation entirely correct?
Maybe. Maybe not.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm pretty fine with ghosts being deluded and 'souls' being a mere astral (and killable) extension of the body.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

As far as I can tell, Essence basically is the soul. Which is incredibly depressing, because Essence can be depleted by any number of things, from getting cybernetic implants to suffering traumatic injury to getting Essence drained. This seems implies that SR take on the matter is that yes, the soul exists, but it's not immortal by any means, and it probably dies with the body. Ghosts? Those are spirits which are either deluded or malicious, but they're certainly not deceased human beings.

Is that interpretation entirely correct?
Maybe. Maybe not.

Essence is NOT the Soul, it is merely the thing that lets you KEEP your Soul in your body. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[CanRay]

I don't know what that means. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But I don't think the idea that a headless body isn't a character is a controversial one.

Peg is/was a Decker that was a paraplegic, she worked with Argent, the Shadowrunner's Shadowrunner.

[Yerameyahu]

Ah. I never read the fluff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But that sounds like someone still in possession of their brain, which is *not* a meatbag on life-support.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ah. I never read the fluff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But that sounds like someone still in possession of their brain, which is *not* a meatbag on life-support.

Indeed Not. Peg is one hell of a Hacker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[longbowrocks]

It doesn't really work that way in SR4, not for characters (i.e., non-cyborgs, non-cyberzombies, because those aren't PCs).

I didn't see any rules concerning creating cyberzombies or cyborgs. Aren't they ideas for creation so that player characters/GMs can create them?

[Yerameyahu]

They're for NPCs. In any case, it's not a very special case: you're protected from LOS inside a vehicle anyway.

[longbowrocks]

though he is working on regaining some of that essence hole he recently created...

How do you regain essence? Tell fish stories with excessive embellishment until no one can deny that you're quite the character?

[longbowrocks]

… so your grenade will change color when there's any astral presence? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not that there *is* any astral presence with Shapechange.

I'll admit, I haven't read any of the new stuff in Attitude. I assumed it was all worthless style crap. Sounds like they snuck some manatech in there, but doesn't sound very effective.

"More for ritualistic types, bone black has come back in
cosmetics and tattooing. Made by burning and crushing animal
bones into  ne powers, this material has been mixed with other
materials such as Awakened butter y wings or ground with dualnatured
plants that react with astral objects so that it gives o a
variety of colors.  ere’s some experimentation in getting the bone
black makeup to shi colors depending on local mana  uctuations
or the presence of astral beings.  e Triad use bone black for spell
anchoring tattoos and as a material link to their brethren."

Awakened characters are dual natured, so I read that as: the makeup will glow or change color (how about to orange) if it gets close to an awakened character.
Moreover, if I wrap a grenade or other explosive in this, I can coat an entire area. In that case, if I see an orange spot, I know where the spellcaster is.

[Sephiroth]

Awakened characters are dual natured

False.

Only astrally perceiving characters and critters (including the Infected) with the Dual Natured power are dual natured.

[longbowrocks]

Dang. Well, I originally intended this to be a balancing factor against astrally perceiving characters, so either way.

[Doc Byte]

I know that most people when they play mages go for the "Pure" route... I am of the firm belief that is stupid. The character I posted has two points of 'Ware. Why, you may ask. The reason I put the 'Ware on him is that he has to keep up and normal humans (and unaugmented mages) are squishies waiting to get cacked. I put on a Synaptic Booster on him because I didn't want to go last all the time. The rest... fluff. The metagaming reason is the fact that it is much better to take the hit in Magic in the beginning than to take the hit later on.

I'm playing a mage with essence 2. He's started out as a nearly burned-out mage concept 8 years ago. (2 points of ware and AFAIR about 3 points of bioware under SR3 with one geasa.) Meanwhile he's got magic 5 but I still tend to forget that he's a mage. I've allways played him as a Streetsam who can do some magic. He prefers his Mac X over combat spell for most of the time, casting a manabolt with 12D but using the MP with 13D. In spite of being a mage he prefers the mudan solution in many cases. Why bother with a headache, if a gun will do the job equally well?

[longbowrocks]

Won't 12 dice only get you an average of 4 hits? Why cast at all?

[Doc Byte]

Won't 12 dice only get you an average of 4 hits? Why cast at all?

Hits are capped at 5 (magic) anyway. And there are more useful spells than combat spells, no question.

[longbowrocks]

Ah, good point. I'm getting so caught up in the combat capabilities of magic that I forget about the utility.

[Rasumichin]

I just looked up Attitude. Bone black makeup reacts to astral presence by changing color. If I pack some of that into a grenade, shapechange won't help much.

You're gonna shoot a manatech grenade at every pigeon in the city?
Your loan shark will possibly kill you before the mage does.

I didn't see any rules concerning creating cyberzombies or cyborgs. Aren't they ideas for creation so that player characters/GMs can create them?

There's rules for them in Augmentation, including prices and availability of the needed 'ware. Drone bodies for cyborgs are in Arsenal.
Nothing (except a player's unwillingness to roleplay a cybernetically induced identity crisis and prohibitive costs) excludes PCs from becomming cyberzombies or cyborgs.

I never understood why some GMs are fine with mages running arond with a Magic attribute of 12, but would violently object to a cyberzombie PC.