Building a mage. Suggestions on how?, pixie, drake or something else? Options

[tundrawalker1]

Hello again dumpshockers. In our group, we have players create more than one character. The reason being the violent and deadly nature of Shadowrun and to have a wide range of skills available to us should a particular run require skills our primary characters do not possess. Currently there is no mage in our group. The closest to a mage are my Dryad Face (Pornomancer) and a physical adept haruman(sp?). So I am going to create a mage to use as a second character but it could become my primary if I like it.

I have been referred to a time or two as being a power gamer. I really have no defence for that. My first kick at the can in Shadowrun was building a Nosferatu which failed miserably and never saw the light of day (pardon the pun). I have created a Formorian Giant Drake that also has not been played as there is a shifter in the group whose schtick is to be a bruiser so I didn't feel the need to step on his toes. So now on to creating a mage.

Humans, elves, etc are all fine. I am liking the idea of either a Pixie whom I have read tend to be excellent mages or a drake. Yes the BP of 65 for being a drake is steep but it does pay out ok and who doesn't love playing a dragon?

So I am looking for some suggestions on what to build. Any suggestions will be appreciated. The possibilites are pretty well wide open too. Cheers!

[Irion]

Allow me one question: What is good about a drake?

[Cain]

If I were you, I'd start simple. Going for an exotic race sounds like fun at first, but a mage focused on the essentials will be extremely powerful. My last Sr4.0 mage was a human with Edge 6, and she had absolutely no trouble dropping people with spells, controlling their minds, unleashing chaos and confusion where needed, and healing people. Also, don't neglect spirits, they're a major ace in the hole.

If you want a list of suggestions, here's a few to consider:

• Don't take Ritual Sorcery, it's useless. Similarly, don't take Banishing. Don't waste BP/Karma on the skill group.
• Buy Stunball and one other attack spell of your choice. Stunball can wipe out a roomful of enemies in one shot.
• Buy sustaining foci and Increase Reflexes if you plan on ever getting into combat. Long run, it's cheaper than 'ware and more Magic-friendly.
• If you build your own tradition, choose your spirits carefully. They give you significant power, but try not to double up on anything. Also, I'd recommend avoiding Possession traditions for now, at l east until you're more experienced with mages.

[tundrawalker1]

Allow me one question: What is good about a drake?

Flight, +2 to STR, BOD, AGI, Armor of 4, can still use weapons, and uber cool being a dragon. It may not be as cost effective at others but still neat.

[Ramorta]

Flight, +2 to STR, BOD, AGI, Armor of 4, can still use weapons, and uber cool being a dragon. It may not be as cost effective at others but still neat.

^ Not a power gamer.

I'll agree with the others, start with one of the base races (Elves make a good choice for charisma based traditions) until you get a better grasp of whats necessary and what isnt.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, doesn't anyone play normal races any more? If I see another SURGEd Infected metavariant-*variant*, I dunno what I'll do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That said, if you're actually *playing* a pornomancer, it's obvious that it's a 'freaks campaign' and anything goes. Try the Pixie.

[Fortinbras]

Don't take Ritual Sorcery, it's useless.

Make sure your GM knows this. I use Ritual Sorcery all the time, at least once every other game. When you have to do investigation and have a few hair samples to go buy, Clainvoiance through a Ritual can be your best friend. It gets a bad rap because in straight up number crunching doesn't calculate it, but in actual game play it can be very useful.

A proper mage should be so busy casting spells that the physical bonuses provided by the Drake template rarely come into play. The only physical attributes you should be concerned about are Reaction and Body, in which case I recommend a Buddhist ork.

Mana Static! Use it often.

[Cain]

Make sure your GM knows this. I use Ritual Sorcery all the time, at least once every other game. When you have to do investigation and have a few hair samples to go buy, Clainvoiance through a Ritual can be your best friend. It gets a bad rap because in straight up number crunching doesn't calculate it, but in actual game play it can be very useful.

Not at low levels, it isn't. There's too many limitations on it. When you get it up a ways, it can be more useful; but for a starting character it's pretty much dead weight.

[Fortinbras]

I started using it right out of the gate and found it cheaper to buy with the Skill Group, especially over time. Then again, I also make use of my magical group. Like I said, ask your GM about his opinions on Ritual before dismissing it.

Banishing is, however, worthless. Mana Static, baby!

[Cain]

I started using it right out of the gate and found it cheaper to buy with the Skill Group, especially over time. Then again, I also make use of my magical group. Like I said, ask your GM about his opinions on Ritual before dismissing it.

From an optimization point of view, skill groups are only worthwhile in rare circumstances. IIRC, having Ritual Sorcery at level 1 is worthless, because you cannot participate in a group. If you buy the entire group up to 4, you've got a bit more flexibility, but you've cut yourself off from having Spellcasting at 5 or 6, and you can't specialize without special GM permission. Dabbling in Ritual Sorcery is hopeless, because of the group size restrictions.

[Rasumichin]

Banishing is, however, worthless.

Unless you want to take over other mages' spirits.
Likewise, Enchanting is useless if you don't bind a lot of spirits.
Binding is useless until you are powerful enough to bind high force spirits, which is prohibitively expensive unless you have Enchanting.
Arcana is useless up until the point where you initiate or create custom spells for each run.
Astral Combat is useless until you start scouting astrally a lot and get attacked by astral opponents.

Mages are among the few concepts where aiming for versatility can pay off as much as being a specialist.
There's no useless magic-linked skill.
You could build a whole group of mages with entirely different abilities and everyone would be useful somehow if you do it right.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, doesn't anyone play normal races any more? If I see another SURGEd Infected metavariant-*variant*, I dunno what I'll do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That said, if you're actually *playing* a pornomancer, it's obvious that it's a 'freaks campaign' and anything goes. Try the Pixie.

Well, the MAJORITY of my characters are Human. I don't think that I have ever played a Dwarf, don't know exactly why, and I can not ever remember creating an Elf. If I play other than Human, it is either an Ork (or variant, I like the Oni) or a Troll (or Variant, I prefer the Minotaur), but this is a rarity.

[Yerameyahu]

'Vastly less useful than the other places to spend your BP', then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

'Vastly less useful than the other places to spend your BP', then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If I understand you correctly, yes, I prefer to spend my BP elsewhere. Most of my concepts take a bit of finagling to fit into the starting 400 BP, and unless i have a solid concept that benefits from being a Metatype (Variant) I just stick to Human. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I was actually talking about Ritual Sorcery and Banishing, in response to Rasumichin.

[Fortinbras]

From an optimization point of view, skill groups are only worthwhile in rare circumstances. IIRC, having Ritual Sorcery at level 1 is worthless, because you cannot participate in a group. If you buy the entire group up to 4, you've got a bit more flexibility, but you've cut yourself off from having Spellcasting at 5 or 6, and you can't specialize without special GM permission. Dabbling in Ritual Sorcery is hopeless, because of the group size restrictions.

I started out with a Summoning of 6, so it wasn't an issue, and Specialization are better bought with Karma, if you want to talk optimization. Size restriction becomes less of an issue if you use your magical group. Like I said, I use Ritual Sorcery all the time, so it's hopelessness seems a little out of synch to me. It's especially useful when all you have is a link to the subject. I think this is where optimizing for crunch and optimizing for gameplay split.
Like I said, you'll want to consult your GM, or your knowledge of the GM's style, as to how he intends for the game to go.

Unless you want to take over other mages' spirits.

I've never seen the benefit of this over summoning your own spirit, as once the spirit being banished is no longer within the opposing mage's control, he knows it's not within his control and is now yet another opposing spirit.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I was actually talking about Ritual Sorcery and Banishing, in response to Rasumichin.

Gotcha... Oddly, I like Ritual Sorcery myself, though I generally agree on banishing. Spirit Bolt is so much better (Stun Bolt). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cain]

Whoa whoa whoa. If you started with a Summoning of 6, that means you could, at best, have a Ritual Sorcery of 4 or less. Probably lower. Since the max size of a group is restricted to the skill of the least-skilled person in the group, Ritual sorcery of 1 is useless, even with a magical group as a contact. Are you using the group size restrictions? Being able to utilize large groups of magicians does change things, but it's a house rule.

[Yerameyahu]

I feel like you must have one hell of a magical group contact, if they're providing that much support ("all the time").

[Rasumichin]

I was actually talking about Ritual Sorcery and Banishing, in response to Rasumichin.

And you're probably right. Just saying that once you've got the basics covered, there's good reasons to invest in other magical skills if you can afford it.

I've never seen the benefit of this over summoning your own spirit, as once the spirit being banished is no longer within the opposing mage's control, he knows it's not within his control and is now yet another opposing spirit.

You can take control of the spirit with a normal summoning test the moment the spirit is banished.
When you expect magical opposition, you can send their own spirits against them instead of just stunbolting them.
You can also bind them later if you have use for some spirits from outside of your tradition.

It is more involved than simply using combat spells, but it has to be. It's just plain better as far as results go, everybody would do it if it wouldn't take an additional skill to pull it off.

Whoa whoa whoa. If you started with a Summoning of 6, that means you could, at best, have a Ritual Sorcery of 4 or less. Probably lower. Since the max size of a group is restricted to the skill of the least-skilled person in the group, Ritual sorcery of 1 is useless, even with a magical group as a contact. Are you using the group size restrictions? Being able to utilize large groups of magicians does change things, but it's a house rule.

When a group specializes in rituals, it's likely that at least one of them has the Great Ritual metamagic, which adds that character's Magic to the maximum group size (and the maximum possible Force of the spell being cast, too).
So if a character had a Ritual Spellcasting skill of 3, he (and other characters with Ritual Spellcasting 3 or higher) could still easily be part of a group with 8-10 members.
Now, all you need is a group contact with maxed-out Loyalty and Magic Ressources. That's 10-20 BP for your own small army of cultists.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, the contact/group contact rules are so broken. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Still, doesn't that actually mean that *you're* part of the army of cultists? Especially if you're Joe Lowbie, working on rituals with Mr. Great Ritual.

[Rasumichin]

Still, doesn't that actually mean that *you're* part of the army of cultists? Especially if you're Joe Lowbie, working on rituals with Mr. Great Ritual.

That would depend on the group in question.
Besides, just having a halfway obscure metamagic at hand doesn't make you a cult leader in itself (the technique is actually better suited for auxilliaries, as the character doesn't add his own dice to the spellcasting test).
It just means that you're a Grade 1 initiate with an interest in ritual sorcery. 6th world universities produce plenty of these guys, a 400 BP mage could still be more impressive than them.
Maybe Mr. Great Ritual is a friendly bookworm with Arcana 6 and 36 BP in academic knowledge skills who is worse than the PC in every area of practical magic.

[Yerameyahu]

Or not. You're right, it depends. It does seem pretty tricky, either way, but that's hardly abnormal for characters around here! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It *does* increase the 'cost' of Ritual Sorcery, though, if you add 15BP and upkeep of a group contact (a mere RP cost, of course).

[Cain]

When a group specializes in rituals, it's likely that at least one of them has the Great Ritual metamagic, which adds that character's Magic to the maximum group size (and the maximum possible Force of the spell being cast, too).
So if a character had a Ritual Spellcasting skill of 3, he (and other characters with Ritual Spellcasting 3 or higher) could still easily be part of a group with 8-10 members.
Now, all you need is a group contact with maxed-out Loyalty and Magic Ressources. That's 10-20 BP for your own small army of cultists.

In other words, you can specialize heavily to get ritual sorcery up to something decent? OK, but that still doesn't mean that low levels aren't useless. It also means that you've invested so heavily in ritual sorcery, you're going to be limited elsewhere (like traditional casting, since you have Summoning at 6, you can only have a 4 in Spellcasting) It also means that you didn't have the skill group discount, unless your Gm let you break the skill group at chargen?

[Muspellsheimr]

Skipped most of the thread, largely repeating what I expect others to have said.

My advise:
Race
All the 'base' races have strong advantages for a magician character, however I would generally stick with Human, or Elf if a charisma tradition. If using advanced races, either play a Pixie dedicated magician (ignore most/all physical skills), or a Formori augmented magician (abuse skillwires horribly).

Skills
Spellcasting is (probably) your primary skill. Invest heavily, specialize as soon as you can in your focus (with Karma).
Counterspelling is your primary defense against magic. Invest heavily, specialize as soon as you can in Combat or Manipulation (with Karma).
Summoning allows you to operate remotely (astral overwatch/spirit bomb), also functioning as 'on demand' reinforcements & greatly expanding your versatility. Invest heavily.
Binding is generally less powerful overall than Summoning, but allows you to have more than one spirit at a time, greatly improving the reinforcement aspect of conjuring. Highly important for spirit based magicians, can be mostly ignored otherwise.
Ritual Spellcasting is a (potentially) very powerful ability, but is generally difficult to use effectively. Avoid until you have more experience playing a magician unless it is part of a concept.
Banishing is essentially useless. Stun/Manabolt are almost always more effective with significantly less cost & Drain.
Astral Combat is essentially useless. Stun/Manabolt are almost always more effective with significantly less cost. Only invest in it if for some reason you feel a need to defend against it.
Assensing should have at least 1 point in it. Although not particularly important, it is a useful ability to have. Typically functions as an alternate for Perception (although usually less useful). It can provide additional information through aura reading.

Spells
Stunbolt is used for nonlethal combat & astral combat. Low Drain, high damage potential. Multicast for less powerful but more precise 'AoE'.
Powerbolt is used for lethal combat & nonliving targets. Low Drain, high damage potential. Multicast for less powerful but more precise 'AoE'.
Mind Probe is ideal for interrogation, but is not subtle.
Heal can easily save members from dying mid-combat, stacks with First Aid (apply FA first) for post-combat healing.
Increased Reflexes is critical for any magician expecting to be in combat. Maintain with a sustaining focus.
Increase Willpower/DrainStat is useful if you expect to be overcasting, & are willing to trade a -2 penalty for more Drain resistance.
Modified Invisibility (realistic, multisense, physical) is an exceptional stealth spell with low drain. Pay attention to Object Resistance.
Trid Phantasm is the best all-around illusion. Pay attention to Object Resistance.
Fashion is superb for ettiquite & disguise.
Levitate functions as both telekinesis & fly. Versatile and useful.
Mind Control/Mob Mind effectively 'removes' opponents from combat, & can easily turn numbers in your favor.
Mana Static is the best general spell for magic control. Easily shuts down opposing magic users & spirits in confined spaces, forces repositioning in open spaces. Be careful about placing yourself in the area.
Physical Barrier can provide a bridge, area 'shield', & force Crash tests for vehicles. Generally weak but very versatile.
Mana Barrier provides an area defense against spells and hindrance to spirits & dual-natured creatures.

Foci
Shielding Focus provides additional spell defense. Requires Shielding metamagic.
Power Focus increases your dice pool for all tests involving the Magic attribute, most notably Spellcasting & Summoning. As a dice pool modifier, you apply its full value to each dice pool separately if multicasting.
Centering Focus provides additional drain resistance. Requires Centering metamagic.
Sustaining Focus sustains a spell indefinitely (unless disrupted or dismissed). Specific to a single spell category.
Spellcasting Focus is a vastly more limited version of Power Focus. Not worth the cost.
Counterspelling Focus is a more limited version of Shielding Focus. (Usually) not worth the cost.
Summoning/Binding Focus are more limited versions of Power Focus. Not worth the cost.
Avoid other metamagic foci - generally useless.

Metamagics
Quickening conflicts with wards, which if the setting is being portrayed correctly, are common. Depending on GM, karma sink with no lasting benefit. Counters any attempt at stealth in secure areas. Avoid.
Nearly all other metamagics are useful & fair game. Exact order should be determined by campaign needs & player preference.