Laes (straight) vs Laes cigarettes--what gives? Options

[Ranger]

According to Arsenal:

Laes has an availability of 10F and costs 500 nuyen (table on page 77).

Laes cigarettes have an availability of 12 and cost 25 nuyen (table on page 64).

So, the cigarettes have 1/20th the cost and are completely legal, but they take a little bit longer for your fixer to find on the black market compared to Laes in its native state. The only other difference is that the cigarettes don't seem to inflict 10S damage, but otherwise the cigarettes have the same effects as regular Laes. Since the target is knocked out automatically anyway, not having 10S damage is no drawback.

Is there errata for the cost and availability, or is this how it's supposed to be?

[Summerstorm]

Eh... i was going to write that the cigarette has a weaker effect... but i read over it... and yeah: they are stronger.

They erase 12-(ROLL(Will+Body)-3) hours of memories, while a full dose LAES just takes 12-body.

BUT you have to smoke the cigarette for it. So i guess it has an activation-time of about 3 minutes or such. (All while i guess you could maybe taste something off in that thing). Also only works against smokers who trust you *g*.

But yeah... the price should be higher though. It seems like at least half a dose Laes is infused into the damn thing.

[Irion]

Might be a mistake with the times. Maybe the cigarettes are meant to have minutes.

[Ranger]

Thanks for the repies. I think I'll go with Irion's suggestion and make the memories lost in minutes. That'll fix part of it. I'm also thinking they should be illegal. Afterall, if the base drug is illegal, why wouldn't the cigarettes be illegal?

Edit: Yeah, if something such as half a dose is in those, then the price should be at least 250 per cigarette. Maybe they forgot a 0 at the end of the price value. And yes, you're right Summerstorm that the circumstances have to be right for these to work, but that shouldn't be the mitigating factor for making them so cheap or legal. It just doesn't make sense that the cigarettes made from Laes should cost far less and be legal when Laes itself is expensive and illegal. That's just not logical.

[Yerameyahu]

I think the discrepancy is partly because the real drug is a secret military product of Tir, while the cigarettes are a competitor (and now, black market) knockoff.

[Ranger]

I think the discrepancy is partly because the real drug is a secret military product of Tir, while the cigarettes are a competitor (and now, black market) knockoff.

Interesting thought. So, what would stop you from buying a pack of the cigarettes and extracting the Laes? You'd probably get more doses for a still cheaper cost.

[Xahn Borealis]

But the active ingredient only comes from one place.

[Yerameyahu]

*shrug* I'm just relaying half-remembered fluff. I'm not saying the avail/prices are 'correct'.

I doubt it's easy to extract, and why bother?

[CanRay]

Just another reason to quit the coffin nails...

[Socinus]

There are several examples of this in the game.

A contemporary M67 Grenade contains 1/4 pound (roughly) of explosives, Arsenal lists grenades filled with Rating 8 Plastic explosives.

1 Kilo R8 Plastic Explosives is 800, however enough frag grenades to cut open for 1 kilo of explosives costs 140.

[Xahn Borealis]

First, that's a contemporary grenade. SR grenades could contain significantly less or more.

Second, that explosive would probably be very specialised for use in a grenade and useless for demolitions (I guess, I know nothing about explosives, that's just what I'd say if someone tried it. I.e. GM fiat.)

[Socinus]

First, that's a contemporary grenade. SR grenades could contain significantly less or more.

It's possible, but contemporary grenades are all we have to go off of.

Second, that explosive would probably be very specialised for use in a grenade and useless for demolitions (I guess, I know nothing about explosives, that's just what I'd say if someone tried it. I.e. GM fiat.)

What specialized quality would explosives for grenades need to have? All they need to do is explode.

[Xahn Borealis]

What specialized quality would explosives for grenades need to have? All they need to do is explode.

Like I say, I know nothing about explosives. Maybe it would somehow be built in the the shell so it could fragment properly.

[Socinus]

Like I say, I know nothing about explosives. Maybe it would somehow be built in the the shell so it could fragment properly.

Frag grenade design has been pretty standard since the 10th century. It's basically a core of explosives with shrapnel around it, the core explodes and throws the shrapnel around.

The design shouldnt be much different in 2070, unless you can think of a more efficient design (in which case, you should call the Army and collect your millions). All you'd need to do is strip the core out, that goes for a 2011 or 2070 grenande.

[KarmaInferno]

Yeah, I mean they do all sorts of improvised explosives made from other explosive weapons, neh?

WW2 had impromptu sapper charges made from vehicle mines, current day improvised mines are made from artillery shells, etc.



-k

[Xahn Borealis]

I must be the one dumpshocker who doesn't have (para)military knowledge/experience...

[Yerameyahu]

Time, tools, and expertise are also money. If you're equipped to conveniently buy and strip grenades in the first place, more power to you. Not everyone is, and not everyone has the time to waste. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The same goes, I guess, for the laés cigarette… but we can all agree that 25¥ is ridiculous.

[Xahn Borealis]

So let's say I have 50 nuyen, a garden trowel and 5 minutes to blow something up?

[Yerameyahu]

Then you should just set the grenade on the target, cover it with packed dirt and a barrier, and detonate the grenade as-is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (Using the standard timed or remote options, of course.)

[Xahn Borealis]

And I get to keep at least 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for myself. Everybody wins (or dies).

[Socinus]

So let's say I have 50 nuyen, a garden trowel and 5 minutes to blow something up?

Take the trowel and puncture the gas tank of a car. Buy a soda (2-3 nuyen), drink it (no more thirst!), then fill the bottle with gasoline and soak the towel in the gas. Strike the trowel on concrete to create a spark such that it lights the towel on fire. Throw. Estimated time- 3 min.

Any other questions? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I must be the one dumpshocker who doesn't have (para)military knowledge/experience...

No military experience here. Just a huge nerd with a good imagination.

[Xahn Borealis]

No military experience here. Just a huge nerd with a good imagination.

I've got a HUGE imagination on permanent overdrive. That's why I thought grenades were full of some magical explosive that only works on grenades. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Draco18s]

There are several examples of this in the game.

At least the Survival Knife from 3E was gone. It contained a stim patch worth 4 times the cost of the knife.

But then War! added the monofilament grenade with "hundreds of meters of monowire" in it.

[Xahn Borealis]

monofilament grenade

DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT

[KarmaInferno]

At least the Survival Knife from 3E was gone. It contained a stim patch worth 4 times the cost of the knife.

But then War! added the monofilament grenade with "hundreds of meters of monowire" in it.

The price differential is bad enough, but then you run into questions like, "wait, monowire has almost no mass, how does it make for any kind of good shrapnel?"

I suppose it's "Wolverine" logic. I mean, the comic book character only has normal human levels of strength, but can still push his fist-knives though a hardened titanium vault door somehow.




-k