Laes (straight) vs Laes cigarettes--what gives? Options

[Draco18s]

"wait, monowire has almost no mass, how does it make for any kind of good shrapnel?"

We did the math in another thread, under very generous assuptions about the mass of each piece of monowire shrapnel and still ended up needing it to go something like 0.25c in order to get it to have the equivalent force of a truck hitting you (i.e. worthy of the 16P damage code).

[Irion]

@KarmaInferno

I suppose it's "Wolverine" logic. I mean, the comic book character only has normal human levels of strength,

I doubt that. With normal human strengh he would be unable to walk. With all of his bones he carries easy 100-200 kg worth of metal around. All the time.
(It is always surprising how heavy steel really is)

@Monowire granade
Well, the even get those things to cut anything you would need such a big amount of explosives that everyone would be dead from the explosion, anyway.

[Socinus]

@Monowire granade
Well, the even get those things to cut anything you would need such a big amount of explosives that everyone would be dead from the explosion, anyway.

You could conceivably do it.

It would work better if you had it set up a little more like a claymore mine with small weights attached to the end of strips of monofilament wire laid across the face of an explosive charge. That way you'd throw the monofilament wire at someone and it would have some actual mass to do damage.

It's not quite effective as a grenade, but if you REALLY had a hard on for a monofilament GRENADE, you could set it up such that the blast of the grenade was focused out a vertical slot down one side of the grenade to cut the wire and the force of the explosion would throw the cut wire outwards.

Definitely not the most practical weapon, but feasible. If you wanted to be REALLY effective, you would set up hundreds of small "nails" around a charge that had monofilament wire running length-wise down the nail such that when the explosion propelled them outwards, you'd have a good amount of mass behind the cutting power.


I've had a design for a weapon in mind for a few weeks now, the "Manwhacker", which is basically a weed-whacker design with maybe foot-long monofilament wire instead of plastic wire.

[Irion]

You could conceivably do it.

Yeah. You could also build grandes with shrapnells made out of gold, so magnetic shields would be unable to stop them.
Well, there are no magnetic shields. And there is a lot of stuff cheaper than gold. But yes you could do it.

If you wanted to be REALLY effective, you would set up hundreds of small "nails" around a charge that had monofilament wire running length-wise down the nail such that when the explosion propelled them outwards, you'd have a good amount of mass behind the cutting power.

No, it would be even less effectiv. Because it would be even more expensive to build that.
So you would even get less effect for the buck.
More effectiv would be to get some nails into it and leave it with that.

[Xahn Borealis]

I can imagine CanRay popping up saying something like, "Back in my day, we just shot a guy in the face and called it a day".

[KarmaInferno]

@KarmaInferno

I doubt that. With normal human strengh he would be unable to walk. With all of his bones he carries easy 100-200 kg worth of metal around. All the time.
(It is always surprising how heavy steel really is)

Eh, don't blame me. All the official texts say he has the strength of a normal human that engages in "intensive regular exercise", pressing about 360-some kg. Though the same sources say the metal in his body is only about 50kg - apparently Adamantium is super-light.

Note that when they say, "normal human", they mean, "not superhuman".

He does have the advantage of never getting tired, though, tied to his regeneration.



-k

[CanRay]

I can imagine CanRay popping up saying something like, "Back in my day, we just shot a guy in the face and called it a day".

Oh! You think we had FIREARMS back in my day, did you?

NO! We had to use Hand Razors to dig into the guy's face until we hit brains, and then keep digging until they stopped screaming and writhing around! We WORKED for our (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) back then! Not like today where you have magic recoil compensation and extensive weapon and vehicle modifications and such!

On the bright side, we had maps. But they were uphill. Both ways! Through snow and driving toxic rain mixed with ash so thick that a respirator would last maybe ten minutes if it was a good air day!

[Xahn Borealis]

You personify badass once more, sir. Bravo.

[Draco18s]

It would work better if you had it set up a little more like a claymore mine with small weights attached to the end of strips of monofilament wire laid across the face of an explosive charge. That way you'd throw the monofilament wire at someone and it would have some actual mass to do damage.

Assuming your single-molecule-thick monowire isn't vaporized in the explosion.

[Irion]

@KarmaInferno
Well, I guess you should not expect too much from comics and movies. The terminator is also driving cars or motorcycles.

[CanRay]

@KarmaInferno
Well, I guess you should not expect too much from comics and movies. The terminator is also driving cars or motorcycles.

Titanium Alloy Battle Chassis, how much would that weigh with future tech? OK, the motor systems would weigh a bit, no matter what. Still, he should be riding pretty low on the suspension. Of course, there are some rather large people in vehicles as well. Then again yet more, Andre the Giant drove a Mini due to the hydraulic suspension it had which supported his weight. (He's also the reason that anesthesiologists are able to knock out massively obese people.).

Of course, I describe "Money" Johnson as feeling heavier than before, and moving like a bruiser despite fighting like a fencer due to his Titanium Bone Lacing. And the occasional pure titanium alloy bone.

Movie magic and "Did Not Do The Research". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Irion]

@CanRay

Titanium Alloy Battle Chassis, how much would that weigh with future tech?

A fucking lot. Depending how big it is.

[CanRay]

A fucking lot. Depending how big it is.

I'm just guesstimating here, but I'm thinking it's about the size of an Arnie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[longbowrocks]

What specialized quality would explosives for grenades need to have? All they need to do is explode.

But they need to explode *specially*. What's the point of shrapnel without rainbows and butterflies to add to the experience?

[Xahn Borealis]

But they need to explode *specially*. What's the point of shrapnel without rainbows and butterflies to add to the experience?

See, he knows what I'm talking about. You know, MAGIC grenades. That go boom. MAGICALLY.

[longbowrocks]

We did the math in another thread, under very generous assuptions about the mass of each piece of monowire shrapnel and still ended up needing it to go something like 0.25c in order to get it to have the equivalent force of a truck hitting you (i.e. worthy of the 16P damage code).

What 16P damage code?
AFAIK, mono-anything is 8P -4AP.
My copy of war says the same for monofilament grenades, but maybe it's in some errata somewhere.

Last but not least, a Truck overcomes resistance with blunt force, whereas monfilament works by not meeting any resistance (it cuts like a knife through vaporized butter).
Therefore, no need to give monowire relativistic mass.

[longbowrocks]

I doubt that. With normal human strengh he would be unable to walk. With all of his bones he carries easy 100-200 kg worth of metal around. All the time.
(It is always surprising how heavy steel really is)

I'm no comic buff, but I was under the impression that wolverine didn't get his bones replaced, but rather coated.
Also, I think they used adamantium, not steel.

[Xahn Borealis]

But no anaesthetic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Basically, it is what Shadowrun calls Bonelacing Titanium, but with Handwavium . . err, Adamantium . .
And they had to do it while the Metal was at about 850° celsius too.
His healing factor was the only reason for his survival. And why he was chosen. And why he did not go insame. Too much anyway.
Because, yes, his healing factors heals away traumatic memories. No, really, it's true. Look it up. Psychic Sscar Tissue. More or less.

Read the Weapon X Novel some time, it's good enough.

[Xahn Borealis]

*crazy thought* Quickened Reinforce Spell on Titanium Bone Lacing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Stahlseele]

*crazy thought* Quickened Reinforce Spell on Titanium Bone Lacing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Does work.
Does work on normal bones too.

[longbowrocks]

What's the point? Is there anything in the game that frequently affects bones directly with physical force?

[Yerameyahu]

I'm not sure that's possible, in the technical sense of 'reinforcing the *bones*'. SR magic doesn't allow that kind of targeting (and SR4 combat barely does). You might be able to just do it on the whole body, though; effectively the same thing, or better (safe skin).

As for bone lacing, it depends if it's an implant or more some kind of 'treatment', because essence-paid implants have to be pre-enchanted as a unit before implantation. If bone lacing is (fluff-wise) not a single object, it might be a problem. Either way, hope you don't hit wards.

[Xahn Borealis]

Dermal plating, then?

[Yerameyahu]

Possibly. There have been threads about this in the past, and it's a little murky about what's the difference between barrier stats (Armor/Structure) and character armor stats (worn armor, etc.). I'm not sure that a person is a valid target for the Reinforce spell, or whether or not a Reinforced item provides bonus character armor; I've seen it all argued either way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Personally, I think that the spell is intended for barriers (and destructible objects), and not persons/personal armor. The difference between wearing an armor plate and taping a car door to your back are basically arbitrary, but it's a game mechanic issue.