[X] My Assistant

[Mäx]

Well, Barriers don't take stun damage.

And where exactly in the rules are you getting this from, you can damage barriers with unarmed attacks and last time i checked those normally do stun damage.

[sabs]

I think that's me combining vehicle rules and barrier rules. Vehicles don't take stun damage.
Still, sns is a bullet, so it does 2dv/bullet, not some magical 6DV.


It also makes no sense for a sns round from a rifle to go through a car and into a person. If you want to argue that the shock carries through, you still need to go have a modified dv higher than the armor rating of the barrier, and then the person gets to soak using body+armor+armor of barrier.

The description of the sns round is that when it hits something, it sticks and then releases a shock. it's not built for penetration. It's actually the opposite of penetration.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And where exactly in the rules are you getting this from, you can damage barriers with unarmed attacks and last time i checked those normally do stun damage.

Well... In the area for Damaging barriers...

If the weapon's modified Damage Value does not exceed the barrier's Armor rating (modified by the weapon's AP), then the weapon is simply not strong enough to pierce the barrier, and the attack automatically fails.

So... Lets see... A Standard Bullet (or SNS) does 2 DV...

Which is not enough to penetrate Average material (Barrier of 4) even with its -Half AP of the SnS.

Barrier table that is relevant...

Average Material 4
Example: tree, furniture, plastiboard, ballistic glass
Heavy Material 6
Example: hardwood, dataterm, lightpost, chain link
Reinforced Material 8
Example: densiplast, security door, armored glass, Kevlar wallboard
Structural Material 12
Example: brick, plascrete
Heavy Structural Material 16
Example: concrete, metal beam
Armored/Reinforced Material 24
Example: reinforced concrete
Hardened Material 32+
Example: blast bunkers

Anything that that does not penetrate Barrier Rating is Harmless to that barrier. So, Most Bullets will not penetrate most barriers.

[Dakka Dakka]

So... Lets see... A Standard Bullet (or SNS) does 2 DV...

Which is not enough to penetrate Average material (Barrier of 4) even with its -Half AP of the SnS.

If you wanted to destroy the Barrier that is true, but for shooting through it, the SnS bullet does normal damage. the attacks modified damage has to exceed the barrier's armor ratng to go thorugh. the rule does not specify that this damage has to be physical.

[sabs]

Stick-n-Shock: This is a special adhesive projectile that sticks to
the target and incorporates a battery pack that delivers short bursts of
high-voltage pulses. The Stick-n-Shock replaces the weapon’s Damage
Value with its own.

Okay, how exactly is that going to penetrate /anything/

[Dakka Dakka]

Fluff=/=Rules

How is such a projectile fired from a sniper rifle able to create the expected effect at maximum range without going straight through a target at point blank range?

[Bigity]

I'd rule that the damage value replacement does not occur until the intended target is taking damage, so the weapon's regular damage code is what has to be past the barrier.

[Mäx]

So... Lets see... A Standard Bullet (or SNS) does 2 DV...

Yes, if I'm trying to destroy the barrier with it, but when i just try to shoot at the guy on the otherside, it does the same damage as it normally does.
and when that substitution is used, the barrier doesn't get to ingnore damage, only to resist it.

I'd rule that the damage value replacement does not occur until the intended target is taking damage, so the weapon's regular damage code is what has to be past the barrier.

THats actually pretty elegant way to handle the situation.

[sabs]

If you're shooting at someone through a barrier, that barrier basically acts like hardened armor.

So a Tree is 6 armor 7 structure
If you can't put together more than 6DV of damage, the attack bounces. If you can, then it goes through, and then the guy standing behind the tree gets to soak doing
Body+Personal Armor+Armor Rating of Tree.

[Mäx]

If you're shooting at someone through a barrier, that barrier basically acts like hardened armor.

So a Tree is 6 armor 7 structure
If you can't put together more than 6DV of damage, the attack bounces.

Actually its 6-AP of your weapon, witch depending on the weapon ends up as anything between 0 and 11

[Yerameyahu]

This is exactly what I said: the barrier rules don't care about regular ammo, SnS, capsule rounds, whatever. You're talking about (perfectly reasonable) fluff-based house rules. And net hits count, Tymeaus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is exactly what I said: the barrier rules don't care about regular ammo, SnS, capsule rounds, whatever. You're talking about (perfectly reasonable) fluff-based house rules. And net hits count, Tymeaus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

All bullets deal 2DV to barriers. Regardless of Whether it is from a Light Pistol, Sniper Rifle, or Heavy machine gun. I know that I have seen it in the books, just cannot find it right this instant. I am apparently having a Failed Search-Fu moment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

EDIT: Found it. In a Table... And you are Right, Net hits do add from the base of 2. Found that in the Sidebar Example for clarification.

[Yerameyahu]

Ironic that you say this:

That is something completely different than penetrating a barrier however.

(Ah, you edited it out, quite rightly.) The 2 DV/bullet rule is specifically for Destroying Barriers, not Penetrating them.

As for the Penetration rules, I think net hits do apply. It specifically says '*modified* DV', to be compared against 'Barrier Armor modified by AP'.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ironic that you say this: (Ah, you edited it out, quite rightly.) The 2 DV/bullet rule is specifically for Destroying Barriers, not Penetrating them.

As for the Penetration rules, I think net hits do apply. It specifically says '*modified* DV', to be compared against 'Barrier Armor modified by AP'.

Yep, Edited it out and corrected. Nopt sure what I was thinking...

Does say Modified DV.
T'is True...
Which does make sense, because if it cannot penetrate the barrier, why worry about soaking damage for the target. Modified DV MUST be the end result. Doh... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

And again, it's not crazy to treat SnS/other things as 'special', per their fluff.
I still dunno what this has to do with combat spells, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And again, it's not crazy to treat SnS/other things as 'special', per their fluff.
I still dunno what this has to do with combat spells, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, Me neither. Can't remember why we are on this particular tangent, and am too tired to look back further in this thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I just have a hard time seeing a Heavy Pistol round blowing a 2-meter hole in a wall when it passes through. I LIKE the idea that if your Barrier, modified by the rounds AP is sturdier than the damage inflicted, it bounces (which it does). That actually makes sense. What I do not like is that you can inflict more damage to a wall if you aim for a bit. It does not make sense that your Net Hits will somehow make the hole any bigger than it would normally be when traveling through a barrier. I have put rounds throuigh a lot of walls in my time, and the more accurate the shot does not determine the size of the hole. A Heavy Pistol blows a 2 Meter hole in a Fiberboard Wall (Armor 2, Structure 3) because I got 6 Hits? Really? What Crap is that...