Qabbala Tradition, Or, Krav Maga is cool, but why are Jews overpowered? Options

[ggodo]

What makes Qabbala an overpowered tradition? I've heard it said here quite a bit, and can't find anything in the book that indicates it being better than anything else. Of course I'm not a fan of possession traditions, so I might be a bit biased.

[Summerstorm]

Hm... never heard that.

Can't see any overpowered element in there (more than any other magical tradition). Ok, Logic based is a TINY bit easier to boost, IF you are willing to take a magic hit. But the rest doesn't seem bad.

I would argue that Voodoo might be a bit out of whack because of their spirit list (and the fact that they have the coolest watchers *g*.)

But Quabbalists? Eh... just a task spirit, no special restrictions...

And Krav Maga isn't that bad either. (Most people just find the aim as free action weird) And every GM would let you learn that as part of other self-build "Krav Maga"-like trainings.

[ggodo]

That was the same vibe I got from Qabbala. It's not baf, but I don't really think there's anything in there that's better than anything else, heck I double checked Task spirits to see if they did something scay and they seemed to be spirits.

[Fortinbras]

Dumpshock is crazy for Possession traditions. It builds better with crunch. My group couldn't live without their materialization spirits, so it has yet to be an issue.
And how about Jewish people, instead of Jews?

[Rasumichin]

Task spirits are the Swiss pocket knife of magic. It's like free skillsofts. Well, except for combat skills, you'd need Guardian spirits for that.
Oh wait, Voodoo has both.

I'm with Summerstorm on this one : Voodoo is hands-down the best possession tradition in Street Magic, that spirit selection is just nuts.

[Ranarion]

Vodoo is insane.. you can get yourself craftet every single item by simply take a sin-less people to a shop.

They will get high Agility and the skill from your Spirit. So you let them Craft a special Weapon, just to Hand it to the Guardian Spirit-possesd guy next door, and you have a decent Sam at your command.. And not only a good Fighter, he has Antimagic too.. and Astral Combat. And you need to sneek? give him Concealment too!

HAve no Weapon? just take Natural Weapon.

Vodoo has the most Options i think.

[Fortinbras]

Until some SINless fella's troll brother shows up looking for his kin with a street gang. If any of my players tried this, I think I'd have a field day.

[Ranarion]

I think in shadowrun there are enough people nobobody will miss..

sure you cant just pick anyone from the street.. but not picking the guy with gang-signs would be a good start.
if Possible i would take a homeless drug-addicted Person out of the park.. you dont even have to be there to Choose, and nobody will ask if he walks away, and if somebody ask, a good influence-spell will clear the Problem.

[Fortinbras]

But how do you know that nobody is an actual nobody and not a) a KSAF reporter in disguise? b) a powerful mage working on an Ordeal? c) a crazy relative of some Yak boss? d) a powerful Free Spirits testing the Souls of Men fairy tale style? e) A shape changing, mage eating paracritter? f) a mega-corp looking to ensnare a Possesion tradition mage? g)anything else Dumpshock can think of?

To assume that everything will go according to plan when picking up some random NPC, is assuming your GM is very kind. Let me know how that assumption works out.

[Rasumichin]

Just take the Dependent flaw and put your slacker sibling to some use.

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

But how do you know that nobody is an actual nobody and not a) a KSAF reporter in disguise? b) a powerful mage working on an Ordeal? c) a crazy relative of some Yak boss? d) a powerful Free Spirits testing the Souls of Men fairy tale style? e) A shape changing, mage eating paracritter? f) a mega-corp looking to ensnare a Possesion tradition mage? g)anything else Dumpshock can think of?

To assume that everything will go according to plan when picking up some random NPC, is assuming your GM is very kind. Let me know how that assumption works out.

Sure, roll a ridiculously low probability (a 1 on a d1000), and if you "win", you get one of those. Seriously, it might be good for a laugh once in a while, but IF PCs want to abuse homeless/sinless then send some vigilantes or other runners after them, not something like that.

On topic: I'm playing a Quabbala Mysad at the moment, and I have to say, while posession is nice, their spirit list is in no way overpowered.

[Fortinbras]

Your options for such things are limitless. Sure, you can just give them some random NPCs to dispense with, but there are so many fun, creative ideas to come up with, there is no reason to limit yourself because it seems impractical. A Voodoo tradition mage culling the local homeless population for his mass production schemes is equally implausible, but somebody thought it and there it is. Heck, that seems like a neat adventure!

You have to keep your players on their toes; keep thinking and creating. It's that sort of thing that keeps the overpowered traditions in check.

[Hida Tsuzua]

This might not be too grimdark enough, but why not just hire the bums for 500Y a month? You'll get people to flock to your sweatshop then. Compared to the cost of summoning the spirits (either though binding or the opportunity cost of a mage using his unbound spirits), it's nothing. You also don't get people's brothers trying to get revenge or whatever so you cut down on the chance of PCs wrecking up the place.

[Summerstorm]

Oh come on. You are a Voodoun (or a Mambo) PRIEST. A Leader, an authority figure. People should be honored to be the vessel of a lesser loa and help fullfilling the plans of the greater ones (which speak through you... oh mighty priest).

Tsetse.. PAYING people?

And yeah... Voodoo is charisma based *g*.

[imperialus]

Isn't it obvious why the Jews are overpowered? Their spaceships are like 3 times the size of the Goyam's!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YgxI9W_3qU

[CanRay]

Isn't it obvious why the Jews are overpowered? Their spaceships are like 3 times the size of the Goyam's!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YgxI9W_3qU

And, oy, such a deal they got on them! Their cousin ran the spacefighter dealership and...

...

I am so going to Hell for that one...

[hobgoblin]

Dumpshock is crazy for Possession traditions. It builds better with crunch. My group couldn't live without their materialization spirits, so it has yet to be an issue.
And how about Jewish people, instead of Jews?

At least with Krav Maga, using Israelis rather then Jews would be more correct IMO. This as there are Jews that are not Israeli citizens (and disagree strongly with Israeli policies and such). Conflating the two would be a bit like claiming all Muslims are Iranians or whatever is the Muslim boogeyman nation right now.

[ggodo]

At least with Krav Maga, using Israelis rather then Jews would be more correct IMO. This as there are Jews that are not Israeli citizens (and disagree strongly with Israeli policies and such). Conflating the two would be a bit like claiming all Muslims are Iranians or whatever is the Muslim boogeyman nation right now.

Sorry if I offended, The comment about "Jews being overpowered" has popped up on here a few times with Krav Maga and Qabbala cited as the reasons. I finally got curious enough to put some thought into looking at Qabbala, and was wondering why it was so good. I based my subheading off the comments that led me here figuring someone would get the joke. I did not mean to offend and am well aware of the real world origins of both Krav Maga and Qabbala.

[hobgoblin]

Heh, not offendend, just OCD pedantic from time to time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[longbowrocks]

Sorry if I offended, The comment about "Jews being overpowered" has popped up on here a few times with Krav Maga and Qabbala cited as the reasons. I finally got curious enough to put some thought into looking at Qabbala, and was wondering why it was so good. I based my subheading off the comments that led me here figuring someone would get the joke. I did not mean to offend and am well aware of the real world origins of both Krav Maga and Qabbala.

Could be OP because it gives gun toting street sammies another mechanic to work with when optimizing their characters. A mechanic that would be all about melee if not for the Israeli version. Then again, it's not that bad.

[Adarael]

I don't see how any specific tradition could be considered overpowered, since you can largely create your own tradition and spirit selection upon character creation, as long as you have a marginally reasonable explanation...

[Irion]

Possesion is seen to be overpowered.

Two reasons:
First: Vodoo gets the best combination of spirits. So every time there is a debate about it you are dealing with a vodoo mage.
Second: Mages can do a lot of shit. But they tend do be squishy (because they lack BP for reaktion, Body and do not have many cyber enhancements).
A possession mage can get around this problem with one complex action. (Having one initiation)

This means he is a spellcaster (in the worst case, no bound spirits) without the possibility to summon.
But that still more mage than an adept and it is mage enought for most runs. (Yeah, you do not get the near indestructible drones called spirits, but if shit hits the fan, you are able to take over the opposition)

(I personaly dislike possession, because there is close to no defance against spirit takeover. So a mage could just go next to you Astral and command a spirit in your body. Yes there is also no strategie against the force 6 guardion spirit materalising and ramming a spike trough your back, like the T-10000. (But you might get a suprise test)

[phlapjack77]

A Voodoo tradition mage culling the local homeless population for his mass production schemes is equally implausible, but somebody thought it and there it is. Heck, that seems like a neat adventure!

I would think also that the gov't or other high-power forces would be on the lookout for this kind of thing - with the recent unpleasantness with the Brotherhood and all that...*

*disclaimer: I may not actually know what I'm talking about wrt this

[svenftw]

A Voodoo tradition mage culling the local homeless population for his mass production schemes is equally implausible, but somebody thought it and there it is. Heck, that seems like a neat adventure!

Lucio Fulci made quite a name for himself using plot lines just like this.

[Yerameyahu]

I rarely get involved with magic, and Possession even less, but I thought they still got spirits, in all their 'super-drone' glory. They just need vessels, right? If anything, they're worse in a vessel than a regular spirit, I though. (With tradeoffs, of course.)