The Way of the Adept released, PDF only; 15 pages, $4.95 Options

[Magus]

Question on the Ways

for example:
The Invisible Way
Cost: 10 BP
Spies and thieves of the highest order, the adepts who stalk
along the Invisible Way are not to be underestimated. Characters
with this uality may purchase the following powers at a 25 percent
discount (rounding as normal), selecting one power for every two
Magic points: Cloak, Enhanced Perception, Facial Sculpt, Improved
Ability (Physical Skills), Freefall, Great Leap, Improved Senses,
Melanin Control, Nimble Fingers, Rush, Traceless Walk. In addition,
they receive a +1 to Initiate grade for purposes of the Masking and
Flexible Signature techniques.

emphasis mine: Is the one for two MPs for the listed powers only or any powers the player chooses? Or are these powers in addition to the powers a player selects with his MPs at creation. For example:

Adept with 6 Magic gets Six Power Points worth of powers

Six Power Points
Astral Perception: 1PP
Improved Reflexes rating 1 : 2 PP
Improved Ability (Infiltration)R3 : .75PP
Attribute Boost (Agility) R2: .5PP
Attribute Boost (Strength)R2: .5 PP
Enhanced Perception R1: .25PP
Traceless Walk: 1PP

Favored Powers: 6MP
Improved Sense (2MP) {this is normaly .25PP }
Cloak (2MP) {This is normaly .25PP/LVL; what level do I get it as a favored power? Rating of Magic?}
Great Leap (2MP) {This is the same as above in CLOAK; what lvl is it at}

Now if I lose Magic due to BC or Essence loss I lose the Favored Powers as well as my choice of Adept Powers I purchase with PP?

[Critias]

If you're an Adept with 6 points of Magic, you get to choose 3 powers that you may purchase at a discounted rate, chosen from powers that you purchase like normal. You don't receive anything "in addition" to what is chosen, you just get a discount on certain powers (and are then able to, in a way, buy more with the normal Power Points you've got).

For the above Adept, it could work as follows:

Six Power Points
Astral Perception: 1PP
Improved Reflexes rating 1 : 2 PP
Improved Ability (Infiltration)R3 : .75PP
Attribute Boost (Agility) R2: .5PP
Attribute Boost (Strength)R2: .5 PP
Enhanced Perception R1: .25PP
Traceless Walk: 1PP

Bolded powers are the ones you've chosen to receive at a discounted price. Discounted powers are chosen from the Quality list (Invisible Way, in this case), and as a character with a 6 magic you would be allowed to pick 3 such powers. Applying the discount to what you've purchased, above, you have 2 power points that you would get a 25 percent discount on, freeing up .5 power points that you're then free to spend as you choose.

To get the most of Ways, you'll want to go heavy on that Way's favored powers (which the above example doesn't do very heavily). In the instance of Invisible Way guys, that's by buying big chunks of Cloak, Great Leap, Freefall, Improved Ability, and other stuff that you can "max out" by applying a lot of levels to. The more points you have invested in favored powers, the bigger the discount you get, and the more points you get back.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

For every two points of magic you select one power. With Magic 6, you get 3 favored powers. Each power will have a 25% discount, no matter the rating. If it is a 0.25 P/level, you get it at 0.1875 P/level, a 0.5 P/level at 0.375 P/level and etc.
If you lose one point of magic due to augmentation, you lose one favored power ALONG with one power of Magic which means you will have to recalculate all your powers back, meaning you might lose a whole power entirely or have to reduce the level of many powers to acomodate your new Magic value.

Ninjaed by Critias while talking with my aunt... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[Squinky]

Beyond the cost Bp wise of purchasing Adept and the Burnout way (15 bp?) I could see someone coming to the table with a buttload of cyber and doubling up on biocompatability. But, meh.

[Critias]

Beyond the cost Bp wise of purchasing Adept and the Burnout way (15 bp?) I could see someone coming to the table with a buttload of cyber and doubling up on biocompatability. But, meh.

Like everything else about a character sheet, though, all this stuff requires GM approval (particularly since they're optional rules). Don't forget the text under the core Adept quality that reminds folks of that fact. If someone were to show up having used Qualities solely to wring every last Essence discount they could out of the system, including buying Adept and Burnout's Way just for the extra smidgen of Essence coupon, a GM is well within his rights to just disallow the character.

[Hagga]

How does the Magician's way work out, here? I'm afraid I don't understand. I always thought the Magician' way stayed inside SR3, but here it's treated as an actual tradition. You're no longer a mystic adept, but a real adept? Do they follow the magician's way, rather than their own adept way and must select that rather than the artisans way or speakers way for favored powers, unique powers and qualities? (Well, not favored powers, anyway. I see that part of the quality.)

[Critias]

How does the Magician's way work out, here? I'm afraid I don't understand. I always thought the Magician' way stayed inside SR3, but here it's treated as an actual tradition. You're no longer a mystic adept, but a real adept? Do they follow the magician's way, rather than their own adept way and must select that rather than the artisans way or speakers way for favored powers, unique powers and qualities? (Well, not favored powers, anyway. I see that part of the quality.)

Magician's Way is an option for Mystic Adepts. They don't have to take it, even moreso than no one has to take any Way. It's there for Mystic Adepts that identify themselves as magicians more than anything else, who want access to the unique Magician's Way stuff -- you can certainly still make Mystic Adept character who follows the Warrior's Way, Totem's Way, or any other Way you want (or, of course, no Way at all).

You can still make a Mystic Adept that follows another Way (with the restricted power, favored powers, and metamagic bonuses that that entails). Or your Mystic Adept can follow the Magician's Way, in which case he still gets most of the benefits of that other Way if he wants them (favored power discounts, and the option for their metamagic boosts), but he instead receives access to the Magician's Way unique power, and can choose to be better at Centering, instead.

It's all about your character's mindset and how much he wants to focus on the "Mystic" as opposed to the "Adept" side of things, in other words. I wanted to leave it as fluid as possible, so that someone could be an Adept first and foremost (on an unrelated Way, barely spellcasting at all), someone could be a Mage who devoted their Adept powers only to improving their ability as a Mage (hardcore Magician's Way, custom power, etc)...and anything in between.

[CanRay]

Broke down and skimmed over it. (Felt I should show my support.). I have to admit, it's well written from what I've seen and has some interesting items in it.

If I ever GM again, I might allow my players to use it. Will have to go more in-depth before I confirm/deny it.

This looks like it could be a new thing to work with using Shadowrun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Critias]

Thanks 'Ray, glad you're enjoying it.

[Ranarion]

What does that "Magician's way" has as powers? cant really think about it.

[Stahlseele]

Astral Perception and the Magical Power that allows you to cast spells i'd gues . .
Maybe Living Focus or Antimagic or however that Adept Ability was called.

[Sixgun_Sage]

I have to admit, I've always loved adepts and felt they kind of got treated as an afterthought, the magic sammy who never really takes off in power, you might be able to fill a niche role but there are always cheaper ways to do it with tech. I bought The Way of the Adept yesterday and love it, it really goes a long way towards making adepts not just even on a crunch basis with their chromed up counterparts but adds a lot of flavor to what most people treat as a fairly cookie cutter choice for building ninjas.

[Mäx]

I have to admit, I've always loved adepts and felt they kind of got treated as an afterthought, the magic sammy who never really takes off in power, you might be able to fill a niche role but there are always cheaper ways to do it with tech.

Doing somethinks might be cheaper with tech, but there really isn't any role what so ever in the game that wouldn't benefit from being an adept.

[Squinky]

Armor. Nothing beats out potential armor than a tin man samurai. Other than that, adepts and sammys are pretty close, depending.

[Kyoto Kid]

...that's why the SR4 version of The Kid had a couple points of Mystic Armour (I'll admit the 4th edition version of this power is much better) along with three levels of the High Pain Tolerance Quality. This made her tough. even when wearing chic armoured clothing (like an Actioneer ensemble or her Zoe Heritage full kimono) and almost as good as someone in Sec armour when fully geared up for a run.


...as to magic, she was a staunch proponent of "Geek the Mage First, Geek 'em Hard, and "Geek 'em Quick."

[CanRay]

Rule One: Geek the Mage First.
Rule Two: Geek the Ork with the Big Gun.
Rule Three: If you're an Ork with a Bug Gun, get a Mage friend to hang around with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[BlackHat]

I'm enjoying this one. I was confused by one part, though. All of the qualities say the powers are discounted 25% and then say "round as normal". What is "normal" for adept powers (which have never been discounted before)? Rounding (up) to the nearest 0.25? If so, the power you pick would have to be worth more than 1 point to have any affect at all, but lots of the options cost only 0.25 by themselves (and only have one level). So, not sure what - if anything - you could round 0.1875 to.

[Summerstorm]

Rounding is for the weak of mind.

Never understood why it should be neccessary for something which isn't calculated often and only for ones own character?

Ah well. This supplement sounds okay. Maybe i will buy it. (When i get the money... WHAT? Don't judge me and my financial problems *g*)

[Patrick Goodman]

A quick run-through of the SR4A PDF showed me that, in general, rounding is done in the character's favor; in your example, BlackHat, the figure would round down. Since the power costs 0.25 points, it makes sense to round it to the nearest one-hundredth of a point, or 0.18.

Your mileage may vary, and I might be totally wrong there, but that's how I read that.

Summerstone: Rounding is done for consistency across products (so that, for instance, all the writers know how to calculate the stats for NPCs), and for ease of use (it's a lot easier to say, read, and write that I've got 1.25 points of Essence left than it is to show 1.2485 (a number I pulled out of my head for demonstration purposes)).

[Makki]

really like almost everything about it. But thoroughly reading I found it actually unbalanced.
I was considering investing 20 karma to buy the Invisible Way quality to get access to the Unseen Hands power. Sadly the number of power points I can free up due to the cost reduction is very limited. There are no really expensive powers here. Warriors get Imp Reflexes AND Combat Sense, that's a huge potential discount. Who in his right mind would use the 25% discount on things like Nimble Fingers??? It's a nice thought fluffwise, but from a mechanical point of view not very well thought through.

the new powers:
-some are too expensive (Conf Man, Eye, Wits, Swift). For Eye and Wits it's the same as with Imp Phsy Attribute. It shouldn't cost double after natural max
-some are pretty cool (Prod., Parry, Unseen)
and wth can't I put the discount on a way-specific power???

Edit: additional question
Is the 10% Essence discount from the Burnout's Way stackable with a Biocompatabilty quality?

[Kyoto Kid]

Rule One: Geek the Mage First.
Rule Two: Geek the Ork with the Big Gun.
Rule Three: If you're an Ork with a Bug Gun, get a Mage friend to hang around with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

...Rule Four: If the Orc with a Big Gun is hanging out with his Mage freind, it's time for naval ordinance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Squinky]

A quick run-through of the SR4A PDF showed me that, in general, rounding is done in the character's favor; in your example, BlackHat, the figure would round down. Since the power costs 0.25 points, it makes sense to round it to the nearest one-hundredth of a point, or 0.18.

Your mileage may vary, and I might be totally wrong there, but that's how I read that.

Summerstone: Rounding is done for consistency across products (so that, for instance, all the writers know how to calculate the stats for NPCs), and for ease of use (it's a lot easier to say, read, and write that I've got 1.25 points of Essence left than it is to show 1.2485 (a number I pulled out of my head for demonstration purposes)).

It seemed to me as if way specific powers were already discounted, for example the mental boosting ones were listed as .75. Comparing them to improving a physical attribute at 1 point pre-ways.

[Bira]

Question on the Ways

Is the one for two MPs for the listed powers only or any powers the player chooses? Or are these powers in addition to the powers a player selects with his MPs at creation.

It's quite simple, really. You don't get any extra points. You just divide your Magic Rating by 2, and choose that many powers from your Way's list. When you buy those powers with your normal points, you get a 25% discount on them.

[BlackHat]

It seemed to me as if way specific powers were already discounted, for example the mental boosting ones were listed as .75. Comparing them to improving a physical attribute at 1 point pre-ways.

Improved Physical Attribute is 0.75 per level as well (at least as of SR4A). Also, whether the new powers are discounted or not, I believe they don't show up on any Way's list of discountable powers... so you end up paying whatever it says.

[BlackHat]

Another question for people who know these things better than I:

Lets say there is a Social Adept who takes the Speaker's Way quality. In the list of discountable powers, it says "Improved Ability (Social skills)". Would this be a single choice (and discount all improved ability powers taken for social skills), or would the adept have to select that choice once for each social skill he wants discounted (with each one being 0.5 to 0.75 PP on its own)?

One thing I don't really like about the way the discount mechanic works is that it becomes more or less useful depending on which powers you're selecting. If you're an adept with 3 expensive powers (like a lot of combat adepts), it might give you as many as 2 extra BP out of the deal, which is awesome. If you've got a whole lot of powers that cost 1 or less, you will be getting significantly less bang for your buck - even though you spent the same BP for the benefit and may be adhering to your Way's list of acceptable powers just as strictly.