D&D Item Creation Alternatives? Options

[Socinus]

Does anyone know of any alternatives to the item creation system in D&D 3.5/.0?

We're running into the problem in our game that NO ONE wants to take any item creation feats or make anything themselves. They all abhor the idea of sacrificing XP to make even simple things.

Does anyone know of any alternate systems that dont involve burning XP to create items?

[Critias]

I've only ever seen Item Creation feats actually used twice. The first was in our first ever "Woohoo, a new edition of D&D!" game where we were trying out 3.0 for the first time, and our party cleric basically turned himself into a healing potion factory. Then a few sessions later we all leveled and he didn't, and he realized that even just fairly weak little potions added up fast, and never made another one for the rest of the campaign.

The other time was in a game where we were using the Unleashed Arcana rules for an Item Familiar. My Elven Fighter/Mage had an Item Familiar sword because I liked the idea of the weapon magically getting better as he leveled up...what I wasn't a fan of was the automatic "you earn 10% more xp" thing, which I felt would be imbalancing. I talked to my GM and we agreed to make that bonus 10% an xp pool that was available only for me to use with Item Creation feats (or for investing in the Item Familiar itself).

So...yeah. I don't have an easy solution to offer, just a comradely nod and sigh, acknowledging that investing xp is a really awkward way to handle it.

[Bigity]

Sheesh many of those items are definitely worth the xp cost.

I haven't heard of any alternate system, you could always say if they don't make them they will have to find or buy em.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, if anything, the problem is if you get someone focused on crafting actually *doing* it. Before you know it, they're half a level behind, but the whole party is kitted to the gills with magic everything.

[Epicedion]

I'd use the system from Pathfinder, which is essentially D&D 3.75 (or what 4th edition should have been).

Without going into far too much detail, they got rid of XP costs for everything so everyone can go about their business as usual.

[Tiralee]

Go the Pathfinder route - it saves time and tears.
The XP requirement was obviously put in place to stop people whipping out a +5 Avenger at level 3, but since the rules take care of that, it's seriously not worth the pain.

It also stops the players from going, "Oh, dammit, I need and extra 1000xp to enchant this sword...heeeey, isn't that a village of orc noncombatants?"

Tir.

[Epicedion]

In fact, just play Pathfinder. It's full of general systems improvements on the 3.5 system, such as:

1) Core class improvements, including Fighter weapon/armor training, Cleric "channel positive/negative energy" abilities and Domain improvements, Sorcerer bloodline powers, and Wizard school specialization powers. General improvements and options for animal companions and familiars.

2) Evening out of racial abilities, as well as the "favored class" benefits.

3) A smarter take on the familiar skill system, removing the double-cost penalties for cross-class skills (which became a bookkeeping nightmare when you start advancing as a multi-class) as well as folding certain hardly-used skills into more common ones.

4) Better feats: this includes the item creation feats no longer costing XP. There's often a roll involved that jeopardizes the materials.

5) Combat improvements, such as use of the new Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense scores to generalize all of the special actions that used to have different systems: Tumble, Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Sunder, etc.

6) Less spiky, more heroic art.

[Thanee]

Yep, you could just get rid of the XP cost, if that works for you.

But overall, item creation feats are amongst the most powerful feats in the game (even with XP cost) already, if you have the time to use them.

It does depend a lot on how you play the game, though.

Bye
Thanee

[Grinder]

Go the Pathfinder route - it saves time and tears.

How does Pathfinder deal with item creation?

[Thanee]

They simply removed the XP cost, making item creation a complete no-brainer, as it basically doubles your magic item allowance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Yerameyahu]

Dunno how that's better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Like they said, crafting is dangerously powerful already, especially for some of the weird classes. Plus those damned munchkins take the feats that reduce the XP and gold cost by huge factors.

[fistandantilus4....]

I've used Item Creation with a few games that had more time as longer running campaigns, usually as the DM, and a few times as the player. Player side, I didn't have too much of a problem honestly, since being lower level typically means you get a bit more experience than the rest of the group and catch back up.

DM side, I like players taking the time to get an idea and make something. I like the process and the creativity. I'd suggest going for more rare components and materials, allowing extra materials being used to offset the XP cost to a degree. Sound familiar? It's worked pretty well and made creation a little more interesting.

Echoing Crit, I agree that +10% exp for having an Item Familiar is ridiculous. There would be little reason not to have one.

[imperialus]

DM side, I like players taking the time to get an idea and make something. I like the process and the creativity. I'd suggest going for more rare components and materials, allowing extra materials being used to offset the XP cost to a degree. Sound familiar? It's worked pretty well and made creation a little more interesting.

Echoing Crit, I agree that +10% exp for having an Item Familiar is ridiculous. There would be little reason not to have one.

Yeah, this. Someone wants to make a magic sword? Ok fine. You need to go and find a piece of meteoric iron for the blade, convince a master dwarven smith to forge the blade and engrave it with his families ancestral runes, and it needs to be quenched in the blood of a red dragon.

Now you've got the makings of an adventure on your hands.

[CanRay]

Yeah, this. Someone wants to make a magic sword? Ok fine. You need to go and find a piece of meteoric iron for the blade, convince a master dwarven smith to forge the blade and engrave it with his families ancestral runes, and it needs to be quenched in the blood of a red dragon.

Now you've got the makings of an adventure on your hands.

Actually, you just described how Sir Terry Pratchett had his own sword built. At 61! While suffering Alzheimer's!

[Epicedion]

Item creation is already at a huge cost, since it requires giving up one or more of the very few feats characters get over the course of a game.

The "item creation XP pool" concept isn't a new one, but it effectively does the same thing as getting rid of XP costs altogether. I think the prominent one was a rule out of Unearthed Arcana, for "craft points."

Pathfinder handles the XP cost by ditching it, but they also toss in an extra Spellcraft (or relevant Craft) roll (DC: 5 + item caster level) which makes success uncertain. Failing this means that you lose all the time and materials expended. Failing by 5 or more gives you a cursed item.

[Tiralee]

Pathfinder handles the XP cost by ditching it, but they also toss in an extra Spellcraft (or relevant Craft) roll (DC: 5 + item caster level) which makes success uncertain. Failing this means that you lose all the time and materials expended. Failing by 5 or more gives you a cursed item.

Yup - nothing like watching a player work for weeks (months in game) assembling items, doing dirty jobs and generally being a dogsbody to the all-powerful enchanter (to get some scrolls for spells they didn't have) and have them botch the creation roll.

So, anyone in the market for a flaming burst +4 staff of face-palm?

Edited: It was a staff of face-"something else", but that's a trifle graphic.

Frankly, I like to mix-and-match items now (also as easy as hell) Instead of getting, "Ohh, it's a belt, must be Giant's Strength!" you have players taking skills in carving to make the perfect buckle for their +2 AC & Haste (10 rounds/day) belt of awesome.

One hare-brained scheme was making a small manor into a Stone Golem of Epic Lairage, a self-defending magic-resistant RV.
...Until I mentioned the usual % chance that the golem goes bonkers.

Not so good for the PC's, but it makes an epic adventure thread, this insane castle trudging over the countryside with it's dead master's last orders driving it into populated nations, scavenging other building for parts to repair itself....


What? This is what our adventures turn into:)

-Tir

[Thanee]

The dice roll is pretty irrelevant, as you easily beat the DC by Taking 10, anyways.

Bye
Thanee

[Wordman]

How does Pathfinder deal with item creation?

Like this.