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> Custom Qualities, Your Thoughts
Mr. Smileys
post May 4 2011, 11:35 PM
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I have created 3 custom qualities for a campaign I am currently the GM for. I would like your thoughts, both good and bad.

Positive Qualities

The below costs are Karma cost

Prana Bindu Training: (180)
Prana-bindu training denotes supreme control of nerve and muscles. The Bene Gesserit develop their physical abilities as well as their mental abilities. A trained user has full control over each muscle in the body through training known as prana-bindu. This allows them to bend the last joint in their little toe while remaining otherwise motionless, bend and contort the body in ways that most would consider impossible, or put a remarkable amount of force behind a physical blow.
30 Rank 1: +1 die on all physical resistance tests
30 Rank 2: +1 die on all physical resistance tests
30 Rank 3: +1 die on all Physical Skills
30 Rank 4: +1 dv on unarmed attacks
60 Rank 5: Full defense becomes a simple action

Weirding Way: (200)
Prerequisite: Must have Rank 5 in Prana Bindu Training
Incorporates the prana-bindu methods of optimized muscle control, which enable one to deliver powerful blows and to move with extreme precision and speed. The basic principle behind the weirding way is that, as Farad'n Corrino says, "My mind affects my reality." A user of the weirding way has to know that the action he or she "wants" to perform has already been performed. For example, to imagine oneself behind an opponent at the current moment in time; when trained well, this knowledge will place you at the spot desired. As the art's prana bindu incorporation allows even small attacks to do massive damage, weirding way combat is to the death.
30 Rank 1: +1 dv to physical Damage in Melee
30 Rank 2: +1 dv to physical Damage in Melee
30 Rank 3: +2 to Reach
50 Rank 4: Add full Strength to Melee attacks instead of half
60 Rank 5: Melee attack becomes a simple action.

Negative Qualities

Emotionless (10-25 bp)
This quality may only be taken at build.
At 10 bp the character may not take any social skill groups at build, may have no social skills above rating 4 and social skills cost twice as much karma to purchase or increase. As a benefit the character may spend a point of edge to ignore an Intimidation attempt against her/him.
The 25 bp is the same as the 10 bp rating with the addition that the character may not have a starting charisma above rating 4 and the karam cost for increasing charisma is the new rating x 6. As a benefit the character may spend a point of edge to ignore all fear effects.
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Dez384
post May 4 2011, 11:38 PM
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Have you looked at the martial arts in arsenal? Following that style would be better than making qualities.
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Mr. Smileys
post May 4 2011, 11:41 PM
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Technically Martial arts is a quality. The Weirding Way is just a specialized martial art that requires another quality before you can purchase it.
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Dez384
post May 4 2011, 11:54 PM
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True.

A better format would be that they are martial arts. To get the Weirding Way, one must take the martial arts quality again with Prana Bindu already taken as a martial art.

The problem with giant cost qualities, is that who would buy them? The cost wouldn't be with worth it.
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longbowrocks
post May 5 2011, 12:51 AM
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Full defense as a simple action would make you an unstoppable warrior, but it still costs too much.
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Yerameyahu
post May 5 2011, 12:55 AM
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I agree: the first two are Martial Arts, while the last one is awfully complex and restrictive for a Quality. A simple +X against Intimidation and/or Fear would fit the existing rules better.
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Halflife
post May 5 2011, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 4 2011, 08:51 PM) *
Full defense as a simple action would make you an unstoppable warrior, but it still costs too much.


Doesn't two weapon style let you take Full Defense while attacking at no action cost?
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Dez384
post May 5 2011, 01:10 AM
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QUOTE (Halflife @ May 4 2011, 09:00 PM) *
Doesn't two weapon style let you take Full Defense while attacking at no action cost?


As per your request:

QUOTE (Arsenal pg 160)
Two Weapon Style
A character using this maneuver has trained to wield a second melee weapon in his off hand. In order to use two weapons, each weapon must have a Reach of 0 or 1. The character may choose to apply the Full Defense option using only one of these weapons, attacking with the other weapon as normal (and without sacrificing an action). The defense or attack action with the off -hand weapon suffers the standard –2 off -hand weapon modifier.
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longbowrocks
post May 5 2011, 01:23 AM
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Aw, I was hoping the proposed martial art would apply to guns too.
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Yerameyahu
post May 5 2011, 01:39 AM
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It does, but only lasguns.
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Mr. Smileys
post May 5 2011, 01:54 AM
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I know the two positive qualities are expensive. I meant them to be because of the large bonuses they give and the large karma costs also reflect how long it would take to learn skills of this nature, the absolute control of every muscle in your body is not something you could learn in a month or so but its something you would learn over the course of 6-18 months. Same for the second quality/martial art.

@Yerameyahu
what about the emotionless quality makes it to complicated?

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Yerameyahu
post May 5 2011, 02:05 AM
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Seriously? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It has a skill cap, another skill cap, a skill cost multiplier, an Edge-powered ability, an attribute cap, and an attribute-cost multiplier. That's complicated! None of them are crazy individually, but it adds up.

I didn't mention it earlier, but the negative side of the 'simplified' NQ would obviously be a simple -X to Social Tests.

In addition, this is basically Uncouth rewritten (with much weaker penalties, more BP for the 25, and a nice little bonus—assuming Edge doesn't already do that). I'd be concerned about the balance, especially because you didn't copy Uncouth's chargen cost multiplier. You can do a hell of a lot with Social skills at 4 and no other penalties at all, and the same goes for Charisma 4. These are above-normal stats for non-face characters.
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Halflife
post May 5 2011, 02:08 AM
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That is fine for fluff but the costs are way too high for the benefits. You can make the time realistic but the BP/Karma should probably match the benefit they give. If you are dead set on them being that expensive they should be much more powerful since 380BP for the full set is basically an entire starting runner.
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Yerameyahu
post May 5 2011, 02:13 AM
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Especially since most of those benefits can already be gained through Martial Arts.

I love Dune as much as the next guy, I just think these don't jive as written. They don't fit existing mechanics or 'thematics' for the rules, first. Second, they don't seem to fit how good they should be (in the books). It's like borrowing the Bashar's crazy slo-time power as 'Wires 1'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Dez384
post May 5 2011, 03:09 AM
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Everything in Prana Bindu and the first two ranks of Weirding Way can be more easily obtained in game through bioware, existing qualites, and gear.
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Yerameyahu
post May 5 2011, 03:28 AM
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What's the fluff on Emotionless, anyway? Is it neurological? Is it some kind of autism-spectrum disorder? Why does it apply to fear, but not other social tests (like being seduced)?

I don't think it's a bad *idea*. I think there's room for a more 'robotic' flavor of Uncouth (even though Uncouth already includes 'sociopathic', etc.). I just think it should be simple and balanced. So, you get 'resistance' to all 'offensive' social/emotional tests (Intimidation, Seduction, Fear-power, possibly Composure tests), but penalties to your own efforts (Negotiation, Leadership/persuasion, etc.)—it's like turning off the pain sensor on your cyberlimb. If it's an NQ, the penalties should significantly outweigh the advantages. Perhaps it's available in multiple ratings (5, 10, 15, I dunno), and the bonuses/penalties are like +1/-2, +2/-4, and so on?
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Mr. Smileys
post May 5 2011, 04:31 AM
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Thanks for the input, I like your idea on having the differant level adjustments, I think I will change it to something along those lines.

As for the high cost of those qualities that's karma cost not bp cost so at the normal conversion of karma/2 (or bp*2 for going the other way) these qualities would cost 190 bp to get at build.
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Yerameyahu
post May 5 2011, 04:34 AM
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That's true. It's still a ton, and people will ask why it's not available at chargen.

Another, totally different option is to make one or both of those into Adept powers. It makes sense, because they're in one sense 'superhuman'. If they required a metamagic or Initiation, that would also handle the no-chargen aspect. If they're as difficult to obtain as your initial numbers imply, they could well be advanced (that is, secondary) metamagics, or something. Or, hell, do the same thing, except they're Resonance echos. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Talk about your mentat training, amirite?
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Mr. Smileys
post May 5 2011, 04:47 AM
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I had not intended this to not be available at char gen, I have the cost in karma because I was a player when I came up with it and wanted it as something my char could learn in the campaign. I like the metamagic idea and that would be usefull for if I wanted to bring other aspects of the dune universe into my game (like being able to bend space) but I wanted the prana bindu training and the wierding way to be available to mundanes as that's how it was in the books, any one could learn it just took time.
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Dez384
post May 5 2011, 04:55 AM
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If you wanted to keep them qualities, you could reduce the karma down to 10 points per level.

Just remember that learning new skills with Karma isn't done at poof speed as players may be wont to think. Learning new skills takes time and tutor.
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longbowrocks
post May 5 2011, 05:06 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 4 2011, 08:34 PM) *
Another, totally different option is to make one or both of those into Adept powers. It makes sense, because they're in one sense 'superhuman'.

Don't listen to him Smileys. He's trying to pull you over to the dark side. The Awakened side. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)
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Yerameyahu
post May 5 2011, 01:12 PM
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You can leave it out of chargen, it's just a departure from the normal way the game works. In the same way, you should probably describe it in BP terms either way, because that's how every other Quality works… not that I think these should be qualities. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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