[X] My Assistant

[Dez384]

Loch is right; powergamers can RP. Powergamers just differ from casuals in the way they approach the game, not how they play it.

[redwulf25]

Say to yourself: "I'm Mr. Johnson, and I want you people to do $CRIME with absolute secrecy. I think $AMOUNT would be a reasonable compensation." Does it sound plausible?

Then cut that approximately in half and let the groups face negotiate up to that amount, maybe 10-20% more if they roll well or have a decent argument why he shouldn't go with someone cheaper. Mr. J always tries to low ball you.

[redwulf25]

Three more things to consider:

Payout vs. Loot
It's silly if the loot is usually more profitable than the payout. Make sure the payout is bigger than the loot, unless there's some special situation.

In some cases though (see the Firefly episode Ariel for a good example) the loot could be the pay out. "I want you to steal <Mc Guffin>. I don't have a lot to offer you myself but they do have a pallet of <new upgraded version of something the company produces> ready to ship, I'm sure you could fence a couple boxes for a reasonable sum."

[PoliteMan]

Players 1, 2, & 3 should get a small amount of Karma for better roleplaying. Players 4 & 5 should get nothing. Player 6... player 6 should also get a Karma bonus because of his crazy MacGuyver plans. If nothing else, the comedy value.

Not Karma, Contacts!

"Oh man, we got so trashed last night. Those Yakuza hitmen sure can drink." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[CanRay]

Not Karma, Contacts!

"Oh man, we got so trashed last night. Those Yakuza hitmen sure can drink." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

*Bring* "Hey, Drekface-san! We go drinking tonight! Many ladies waiting for men like us!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[longbowrocks]

Then cut that approximately in half and let the groups face negotiate up to that amount, maybe 10-20% more if they roll well or have a decent argument why he shouldn't go with someone cheaper. Mr. J always tries to low ball you.

Wouldn't that then be unreasonable pay since it's 1/2 the reasonable pay? The shaowrunners may have to get a bit "unreasonable" in kind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kzt]

Some amount of reward in things other than cash or negotiable assets might be what the player or character wants. Particularly true if they are not white hatted pink mohawkers. Depending on what exactly they want and how the rest of the group feels things might get a bit squicky. ...

[Epicedion]

A box of single-shot rocket launchers, or an extra dozen kilos of plastic explosive always makes for a nice parting gift. No one should ever turn down a nice batch of F-rated gear.

[TheOOB]

I use the pay scale from Missions. ((3,000¥ + (2,000¥ * TR)) * (Number of PCs)

TR = "Table Rating" or "Tier Rating" and is based on the average karma in the group. The chart is in all of the downloadable missions adventures and also here. If the run is particulary dangerous I up the reward. If it's easier than normal it goes down. On average there's one run per month.

So far it's kept the more financially oriented hungry while giving the adept money to blow on whatever he feels like buying that day. The PC who's deep In Debt to Mitsuhama has even gone so far as to take a Day Job to try and keep up her payments, and everyone is on the lookout for the extra tidbits in a job that will net them some more cash.

Those numbers are kinda low, the missions numbers were originally made before SR4A (more karma per run necessitates more nuyen per run.) If you only ever pay 5-10k every run, the awakened characters are going to get too powerful real quick like. You need to mix those missions in with big payout missions (maybe 3 runs at 5k each, then a big 50k each run).

[nezumi]

You're not seriously suggesting that the GM should award more/less Karma to a character based on what the player is like, are you?

You could also just say outright, 'hey, you guys are experienced, these guys are less intense. I'm going to try to give them more points to play with, to keep the game competitive and fun. But I'll make sure you guys get some cool toys too.' All the players are, hopefully, mature adults and can understand the ultimate goal of 'everyone has fun'.

[Loch]

You could also just say outright, 'hey, you guys are experienced, these guys are less intense. I'm going to try to give them more points to play with, to keep the game competitive and fun. But I'll make sure you guys get some cool toys too.' All the players are, hopefully, mature adults and can understand the ultimate goal of 'everyone has fun'.

Perhaps it's just me being obtuse, but I don't see how somebody being new to SR warrants them getting additional rewards. Maybe fudging a die roll behind the screen in their favor, sure, but SR shouldn't be about handicapping players who are quicker on the uptake.

[Ascalaphus]

There's a concern when some players use all their money to increase their characters' powers, while other players spend it on "roleplaying" and "fluff" that gives no clear mechanical benefit.

For some reason, a lot of PCs are dedicated ascetics, foregoing luxury and pleasant life to buy better guns.

[Loch]

There's a concern when some players use all their money to increase their characters' powers, while other players spend it on "roleplaying" and "fluff" that gives no clear mechanical benefit.

For some reason, a lot of PCs are dedicated ascetics, foregoing luxury and pleasant life to buy better guns.

I suspect that's not the case for our group, but then we haven't actually played all in the same room yet.

In a situation like that I'd probably be quicker to use the Conan Rule than to just distribute Karma in a biased fashion. Basically, each character has a limit on how much of their wealth they can spend on purchasing new equipment/spells/programs and MUST spend the rest on lifestyle, food and drink, comforts, etc. The actual Conan RPG required players to spend 85% of their earned wealth on "wine, food and companionship", because, after all, what kind of hero would trade all that shiny treasure for a horse?

It's a rule that I think actually fits into shadowrun really well. What do crims do immediately after they pull off the big heist? Do they use their newfound dubloons to rent out a penthouse apartment, with a multistory car park full of Italian and German automobiles and a bedroom full of Brazilian and Swedish models, or do they buy more bullets and patch up their flak jacket?

[CanRay]

I liked that rule in Conan. So did a lot of the players that I introduced it to.

And a fellow that worked on the Conan Comic Book. He was very upset about it, due to all the "Furry Diapers" he's had to do, but liked a lot of the game.

[Ascalaphus]

I liked that rule in Conan. So did a lot of the players that I introduced it to.

And a fellow that worked on the Conan Comic Book. He was very upset about it, due to all the "Furry Diapers" he's had to do, but liked a lot of the game.

Furry diaper? I don't get it.

Anyway, yeah, I like that idea about the Conan Rule. Although I suspect some people would be upset about it.

[Loch]

Well you don't have to set the percentage so steep if people have concerns with it. I think the intent of the rule is to create more organic characters, rather than have everyone be a stone-faced meticulous assassin who lives in a spartan apartment and spends his entire paycheck on gear instead of on his hobbies, passions, and interests.

[Ascalaphus]

Well you don't have to set the percentage so steep if people have concerns with it. I think the intent of the rule is to create more organic characters, rather than have everyone be a stone-faced meticulous assassin who lives in a spartan apartment and spends his entire paycheck on gear instead of on his hobbies, passions, and interests.

Yeah.. it would split pay into "crunchy money" and "fluffy money" - I'd be fine with it if they used their fluffy money to finance their sister's college instead of blowing it on hookers, as long as it's not spent for character power advancement.

[Bira]

This might go against conventional wisdom, but I think you should pay lots. If your PCs are shadowrunning for money, they should not only go after the big score, they should get it. "Pay then just enough to cover their monthly lifestyle costs with a tiny bit left over" is terrible advice, IMHO, even though it's actually been printed in official books. It turns shadowrunners into, well, wageslaves. Didn't most of them go into the shadows to escape that kind of life in the first place?

The "iconic" Shadowrun adventure involves breaking into a highly secure facility to conduct high-level industrial espionage, facing lethal security measures which the runners will probably have to shoot on their way out. If they go on one of these, give them lots and lots of money for it. Enough to cover their lifestyles for a year, and to replace all their current gear twice over. And, once money is out of the way, you can have a series of adventures that aren't about money - those tend to be the most fun.

Take the Leverage TV show, for example. The protagonists get enough money to never have to worry about it again by the end of the very first episode. The rest of the series is all about helping the helpless (hooding, in SR terms) and working out their personal issues.

[Manunancy]

Furry diaper? I don't get it.

Anyway, yeah, I like that idea about the Conan Rule. Although I suspect some people would be upset about it.

In that sort of comics many barbarian or primitive characters are drawed wearing some sort of fur loinclothes that looks a bit like diapers. Hence the 'furry diapers'. Not diapers for furries... (pass the brain bleach please...)

[Manunancy]

double post

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

In that sort of comics many barbarian or primitive characters are drawed wearing some sort of fur loinclothes that looks a bit like diapers. Hence the 'furry diapers'. Not diapers for furries... (pass the brain bleach please...)

Just had to go there didn'y you? No amount of brain bleach will cleanse that image... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[CanRay]

While it's never come up, I've had ideas for payment in (Slightly used) vehicles, food, a duffel bag full of counterfeit UCAS$1000 bills, kegs of German Lager, a vintage Ares Predator made in the PCC, a large supply of gift certificates for Stuffer Shack, a 40-foot trailer of supplies for Starkaf (Repainted so that it's just a generic white trailer now), a bolt hole in a "U-Store-Ur-Self", and naked pictures of Orxanne.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

"Pay then just enough to cover their monthly lifestyle costs with a tiny bit left over" is terrible advice, IMHO, even though it's actually been printed in official books. It turns shadowrunners into, well, wageslaves. Didn't most of them go into the shadows to escape that kind of life in the first place?

This is called irony (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) . And it happens a lot. Now, mind you, that doing a single run per month that pays around 8k, means you can live in a medium lifestyle working less than a week per month and still have some change. That's more than any wageslave could ever think of.
Attitude really has some good insights about why shadowrunners run the shadows and how they treat the money they earn.

[CanRay]

It's also why Shadowrunners are always looking for that "One Big Score" that will put them on top or let them get out of the game.

Also, it keeps the game interesting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[TheOOB]

If the runners aren't profiting, they aren't runners, they common thugs. What professional criminal mercenaries are going to accept a job that only pays for a crappy apartment and a few bullets?