[X] My Assistant

[longbowrocks]

Well, 2 higher on concealability, but yeah, pretty close.

Has anyone else noticed that "concealability" gets redlined by the dumpshock spell-checker?

[ravensoracle]

Grenades may not be the best choice in a situation but it does cover what he was wanting to cover with some flexibility when it comes to ammunition choice.

[Udoshi]

An alternative to a pistol may be a Gyrojet Pistol. Its basically the exact same stats as a heavy pistol. The downside is that its an Exotic, which blows.

There are two upsides. One is that it not only works underwater, it works better underwater. The second is that Gyrojet ammo, being rockets, can also be missiles or take seeker warheads so you can fire them indirectly, or possibly a sensor rating. Their ammo is a little pricier, but if you make or tweak your own with Hardware/Armorer, then its actually affordable. The idea being, if you can fire around corners, then you don't need to spend as many shots because you have surprise.


Probably not worth it, but i thought I'd toss it out there.

[longbowrocks]

An alternative to a pistol may be a Gyrojet Pistol. Its basically the exact same stats as a heavy pistol. The downside is that its an Exotic, which blows.

There are two upsides. One is that it not only works underwater, it works better underwater. The second is that Gyrojet ammo, being rockets, can also be missiles or take seeker warheads so you can fire them indirectly, or possibly a sensor rating. Their ammo is a little pricier, but if you make or tweak your own with Hardware/Armorer, then its actually affordable. The idea being, if you can fire around corners, then you don't need to spend as many shots because you have surprise.


Probably not worth it, but i thought I'd toss it out there.

Lol. A pistol that eats structures for breakfast.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Last but not least, I wouldn't do a group. If I don't have at least 12 dice in a skill, I try not to use it. Combat is especially rigorous since you die if you waste too many shots.

That is just... Wow... Are you serious? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[longbowrocks]

You use skills with fewer dice? Maybe our hacker was just unlucky, but we almost had to scrape him off the pavement every meet (electronic pavement, in the matrix).

[Yerameyahu]

I dunno if 500¥+ per shot is 'a little pricier'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm also not sure if Seeker heads let you shoot around corners, when not applied to a missile (which are insane expensive). On a rocket, I think they just let you add hits to your otherwise possible shot: you have to be within range, have 'blind LOS' (that is, a reasonable path, though possibly through a light wall), etc. Plus, you're taking a -6, bleh. I agree with your original assessment: not worth it.

[longbowrocks]

Use ultra-wide band radar!

[Whipstitch]

If this build is a mundo and doesn't have anything thing as sexy as Initiation grades to aspire to I'd recommend just cheaply spackling over the concealment problem with karma rather than blowing a whole mess of BP. After all, a bog standard 7 agility samurai only needs a single skill rank, a smartlink and a specialization to be pretty handy with a stick 'n' shock loaded Morrissey Élan and an improved range finder will let you fire up to 15 meters before you start hitting any penalties and you can afford all of that after a successful run or two easy. Is that impressive? Gods, no. But as a compliment to the chameleon coated T-250 you hide under your Lined Coat whip-it sling style it's a pretty damn nice luxury.

[Faraday]

Situation A: A pair of Viper Sliverguns in concealable/quick-draw holsters, as they have decent concealability (+0) and a non-terrible range combined with rather effective (better than a SMG) and SOUND SUPPRESSED firepower. They're also legal to carry with a permit. Recoil can be tricky to manage if you just use one at a time. The ammo is also kinda expensive. Also, modding one to full-auto is relatively simple, which opens up suppressive fire.

Situation B: Any taser. My favorite is Defiance EX Shocker with a laser sight on top. Legal to carry, no permit required. It's only SS mode for firing, but that gives you a little time to aim and then shoot to help conserve ammo. Generally a simple action to take aim, a free action to call a shot, and then second simple to fire. It's also effective in melee and packs a heavier punch than almost any other non-heavy weapon.

Situation C: Heavy weapons. If you need to do as much damage as you can as quickly as you can to a heavily-armored target, this is the go-to skill if you aren't in a vehicle.

[Elfenlied]

Do you have access to the German print of the Arsenal? If so, you'll have access to the Altmayr SP, a pistol-sized shotgun that uses the longarms skill. You can't silence it, but slap on SA firemode, and you have something that packs a punch.

Failing that, my suggestion would be pistols. A Morrissey Elan gets past MAD scanners, and it still deals 8P if you use a called shot. This is ideal for situation B. For situation A, get either a modded-out Ruger Super Warhawk or a Ruger Thunderbolt. The revolver can be modded to SA with 8(cy), and has a high base damage. Upgrade the Thunderbolt with an additional clip, and expand both of them, and slap on SA/FA mode (remember, they both only cost 1 slot each).

[Mäx]

For a conselable weapon, Fichetti Tiffani Needler hold-out has pretty damm nice damage code for such a small weapon (8P(f ) AP+5).

[Udoshi]

I dunno if 500¥+ per shot is 'a little pricier'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm also not sure if Seeker heads let you shoot around corners, when not applied to a missile (which are insane expensive). On a rocket, I think they just let you add hits to your otherwise possible shot: you have to be within range, have 'blind LOS' (that is, a reasonable path, though possibly through a light wall), etc. Plus, you're taking a -6, bleh. I agree with your original assessment: not worth it.

I believe its 500 per 10, actually, since gyrojet ammo doesn't come in stacks of 1. Which

.... if your gm rules otherwise, yeah, absolutely not worth it.

Using Information Guided attacks with a smartlink instead of Indirect Fire makes it a bit better, because you can take a second to lock-on to someone before firing. Thats only a -4, you can a +2 from your smartlink, you get net hits to the actual attack, and its a simple action, so you can lock-on and fire in one pass.
Better yet, you can make an info-guided lock-on using a smartlink, using your ranged combat dice pool instead of what you use for a sensor test. I think thats sensor+perception-signature.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You use skills with fewer dice? Maybe our hacker was just unlucky, but we almost had to scrape him off the pavement every meet (electronic pavement, in the matrix).

Indeed I do...

Lets see.

My Current 300+ Point character (Cyberlogician) has 82 Skills, and most of the rolls are from 7-11 Dice. Only in his Hacking and Pistol skills are they generally greater than 12 dice. Hacking/Electronics rolls are at 14-15 Dice, Pistols is at 14 Dice. Situational Modifiers apply of course, and are not included here. Has an Edge of 2 and Bad Luck.

My Current Magician Character is throwing 10-11 Dice for Specialty Spellcasting/Ritual Casting (Manipulation Spells), 9 Dice for Drain (11 for his Limited Spells), and 10 Dice for Influence Skills. Almost all Other skills are between 8-10 dice. Has an Edge of 3.

My Ganger origin character only has his Piloting Rolls above 10, everything else is 10 or less, generally less (in the 6-9 range). Also a Low Edge (2 or 3, I believe)

Most of the reasons the dice pools are low is that I like to follow the guidelines in the Skill Table. If my character cannot be classified as a Professional or better in a skill, he does not have a skill greater than 2. If he is Professional, then he gets a 3. Etcetera... This helps to self limit the craziness of the dice pools. Not everyone in the group does this, but I do. Of course, once play begins, skill progression happens as characters receive more exposure and training in the skill. As a result of this philosophy, my characters tend to be well rounded characters, with a fair amount of skills. I know that not everyone on Dumpshock agrees with this philosophy.

I have found that it is often better to offset penalties in some way than it is to just pile on the bonuses. We have also recently begun experimenting with capping bonuses as well, so there is less incentive to just pile on the bonuses. Will let you know how that one works out. I personally do not like it (not that I pile on bonuses willy nilly), but the GM wants to cut down on the craziness of dice pools (not that they are all tha crazy, mind you), and he likes this method. May work, may not. It is in testing.

As for the Topic... I like Pistols for their better concealability and their many options.

[Mäx]

Most of the reasons the dice pools are low is that I like to follow the guidelines in the Skill Table.

I really don't understand why, as that table is totally idiotic, how can you make desriptions of how good someone is at a given think based on somethink that's usually less then half of the dicepool for any given task.
Makes no sense what so ever, they really should have tripled all the numbers before the desriptions and say those are total dicepools, no matter how you get to them.

[Yerameyahu]

Udoshi, if you're using info-guided, you don't need Seeker heads (or gyrojet) at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I don't see why the seeker electronics would cost less just because you buy the gyrojet rockets in packs of 10, though. If anything, they should cost more for miniaturization. That said, 50¥+ per shot is pretty bad already.

Good point about the Indirect modifier, I misread. It's -4 for Info-Guided, -2 for Target Designated.

[Lantzer]

I really don't understand why, as that table is totally idiotic, how can you make desriptions of how good someone is at a given think based on somethink that's usually less then half of the dicepool for any given task.
Makes no sense what so ever, they really should have tripled all the numbers before the desriptions and say those are total dicepools, no matter how you get to them.

I just assumed that the skills were paired with attributes of 3-4. Those are after all the average stats for an unaugmented human using 200 pts for stats.

[Fauxknight]

The sniper rifle covers most of your basics, shot for shot its pretty much the best kill out there, the only thing you need besides that is a conceal weapon. Take a Defiance T250 from Arsenal in the short barrel version and add a sling, at that point it has the concealability, range, and damage of a heavy pistol in a concealable holster but uses the long arms skill. No it won't stand up to a body cavity search, but get the ceramic component mod and the easy breakdown mod if you really want to hide it.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I really don't understand why, as that table is totally idiotic, how can you make desriptions of how good someone is at a given think based on somethink that's usually less then half of the dicepool for any given task.
Makes no sense what so ever, they really should have tripled all the numbers before the desriptions and say those are total dicepools, no matter how you get to them.

Because those are the rules (or Fluff, in this case)... And I have absolutely no issue with them like most others do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I guess it is a style thing.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I just assumed that the skills were paired with attributes of 3-4. Those are after all the average stats for an unaugmented human using 200 pts for stats.

Which is not a bad assumption. In fact, it is the valid one per the rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Whipstitch]

Callling an interpretation valid there hits me as kinda weird given that the stuff you're talking about boils down to a table of incredibly vague demographics rather than rules.

[Yerameyahu]

It also gives us DP 11 for 'best in world', which is crazy. The table should obviously be at least doubled (quick and dirty), or rejiggered/disregarded entirely (better solution). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Everyone has their opinions... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Besides, Best in the World would be a Dice Pool of 16... 7 for Skill, 7 for Attribute, plus 2 for Specialty. Seems pretty good to me.

[Yerameyahu]

Now you're bringing Attribute into it? I thought the 'valid assumption' was 3-4 in everything? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Now you're bringing Attribute into it? I thought the 'valid assumption' was 3-4 in everything? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, you said BEST IN THE WORLD... Best in the world assumes that your Attributes are also BEST, otherwise you are not Best in the World. Skill wise you are at the top of your game, but attribute wise you still have room to improve. See, you have an actual range of 0-16 dice to indicate relative competence across humanity. Skill 0 and Stat 1, to Skill 7, Stat 7 and a Specialty. With that assumption in mind, the Skill chart works just fine. With Average humanity falling into Skill 3-4 and Stat 3-4, you have 6-8 Dice + Specialty for their Professional Rankings. Which is the Valid Assumption. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And within that Skill 3-4 range, you still have someone who is professional, but just barely so (Stat1, for 4-5 Dice + Specialty) to someone who is a Sheer Genius at something, yet does not put a lot of effort into it beyond professional competence (Stat 7, for 10-11 Dice + Specialty).

Whay is that such a problem? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)