Getting back my Shadowrun 1st Edition, And getting happy with it. Options

[IKerensky]

Hi,

a friend recently handle me back my shadowrun 1st edition book I sold him 15 years ago. I started re-reading it and was amazed at how good it is :

1- Rules are short and understandable. I LOVE the initiative rules.
2- Book is nicely illustrated.
3- Rules are easy to understand and logical.
4- The Matrix is a matrix.
5- There is a lot of background and fluff right in the core book.

Of course the technological level sound dumbs comparing to today or SR4A, there is no bioware, no drones and cyberware is costly and very simple.

In fact I am so happy with it I think I will just use it and play all the 1st edition material I have, forgetting about the overcomplicated and not making real sense SR4 mumbo-jumbo.

Target Number are so damn more logical and work far better, even when 6=7.

I think it will be easier to re-start from 1st edition and add every sourcebook and scenario one after the other than try to understand SR4A and the massive amount of rules and gear it incorporate (Unwired, Augmentation and Street Magic I am pointing at you!).

[LurkerOutThere]

Have fun, enjoy your smugness, also why post here when you can simply call your friends on your elegant rotary dial telephone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[IKerensky]

Because I am happy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And I loove to share the joy on a related forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also for thoses that doesnt know about first edition and could be interested in using it.

[Fortinbras]

Just remember, Rule #1: The Decker Always Dies!

[nezumi]

SR1 really is a blast. There are some mechanics hiccups and minor overcomplications (such as variable staging and imbalanced character types) but it really is a hoot and a beautiful game book. Do enjoy it.

[DireRadiant]

Have fun, enjoy your smugness, also why post here when you can simply call your friends on your elegant rotary dial telephone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

This is an inflammatory comment. Please refer to the Terms of Service.

SR1 is a blast. I remember the cool DMZ table top diorama they used to demo the game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[deek]

Many people play a newer edition, not because its better, but because that is what is being actively supported and they feel if they play something older they will be missing out. SR is a bit different than other RPGs, because there is a static timeline (for the most part) that goes forward with the new mechanics that are normally introduced with a new version. I'm just as guilty as anyone else, but I wonder why, after the shininess of a new game wears off, if it isn't as much fun as the prior version, then why not go back?

It doesn't have to be a competition on which version is best. Funny thing is, I bet if 1st Edition was republished (talking strictly on the core mechanics), there could be a lot of newbies that would just hop on the new version bandwagon and play it, not realizing that the mechanics were 20 years old. And I'd bet they'd still have a lot of fun playing SR.

I know the ONLY reason I got SR4 was because when my gaming group was looking for a new game to play, a few mentioned SR and I did an online search and found SR4 was just coming out. If that wasn't the case, I probably would have just picked up my old 1e/2e books to start play. Now, I may have gotten a player or two mention that there was a newer edition, but if I (as the GM) wanted to play 1e/2e, that's what we would have played.

The only real downside would have been when a question came up, I wouldn't be able to get an answer as quickly as I can for an actively supported game. And then I'd have to...uh...well, figure something out (i.e. houserule). Since I have to do that with every game I play (new or old) anyways, its not really a big deal, when you think about it.

[Fortinbras]

For my group the, mechanics are secondary.
One of my players pitched using the 3rd or 2nd edition mechanics, but the majority of folks were turned off by the target number concept. I think they got burned out by 7th Sea. A good number of my players had only ever played White Wolf, so the hits mechanic was more familiar. Having the system supported and 4th edition books more widely available was also a factor, as well as the pretty, glossy art. For me, the reason I voted to play 4th edition was the Matrix rules. Deckers always had a habit of bringing my old games to a screeching halt. We tried multiple ways to work around it, but ultimately just made decking runs an NPC thing and that NPC always died.
Which edition we played came down to a vote, and I always yield to what my group thinks is more fun.

That being said, a lot of my players don't know most of the rules. After about 23 games they now know how many dice to roll to shoot things and how many to take away when injured. I still need to remind them of things like range penalties, vision penalties and what not. For them, the mechanics are just a thing to roll in combat and not to worry about when trying to solve a mystery or plan an extraction.
Shadowrun is about world building and setting. Few of my players give two hoots about mechanics, so I, as the GM, can't get too involved with it either. I streamline what I can, make rulings instead of rules when I can't and do all the math ahead of time.

I loved playing 1st edition Shadowrun. I'd love to play it again. But I also love 4th Edition. I love being in an ever growing and changing world in a shared community with a rich and involved history. I'll leave the discussion as to which is a better mechanic to those with greater math skills than my own.

Oh, and I still have and use a rotary phone. It's awesome.

[sabs]

What was really nice about 1st edition, was the Quality of the writing. Some of it was shit.. the whole NAN thing has been hammered to death on how stupid it was. But, a lot of the writing was just awesome. Many of the supplements are just fun to read.

[IKerensky]

Actually I found the NAN to make much more sense in the 1st edition because things pre-awakening are better explained and in more details (just talking about the main core book here).

That the thing that amazed me the more, re-reading 1st edition after having played and read 4th edition and I am actually learning things. Lone Eagle incident got nearly a full page treatment in the 1st edition, not a mere side-note.

It is something logical as more time have passed since then and there is more history to be told, but the way I feeled like SR4A was fast-forwarding the background, chronology and world make it more blurry than immersive.

Anyway my post was more about the joy to getting back the very same book I hold 15 years ago in my hand and feeling still excited about playing it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Synner667]

I recently bought a copy of the SR v1 rules off ebay, to replace the one I gave away 15 years ago, and I love the game much more than I love SR v4.

There's definitely something in the writing, the art, the rawness, the feel of the game that makes it exciting 20 years later.

[Fringe]

Catalyst has taken to republishing a lot of the older stuff in PDF form. If you're interested, SR1 is available (e.g., on Drive-Thru RPG). At $8, I'm tempted just for nostalgia.

[Bigity]

Any rulebook with a rocker archetype is worth owning.

Also, armor points equaling auto successes on damage resistance tests is just awesome!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Also, armor points equaling auto successes on damage resistance tests is just awesome!

This is one of the things that I DID NOT like about 1st Edition. The Reduction of Damage Code from Armor in 2nd/3rd Edition was also grating. But other than that (and variable staging, hated that too), it was a pretty solid piece of work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But Rockers are indeed cool... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Blade]

Also, armor points equaling auto successes on damage resistance tests is just awesome!

The problem is that, from my experience, (in 2nd/3rd ed at least) it led to "if you don't shoot APDS or burst fire, I won't even bother rolling" if you didn't use cumbersome armor degradation rules.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The problem is that, from my experience, (in 2nd/3rd ed at least) it led to "if you don't shoot APDS or burst fire, I won't even bother rolling" if you didn't use cumbersome armor degradation rules.

Indeed... My Troll Adpet rarely had to soak damage from firearms at targets greater than 3, and usually at target 2. He feared nothing that carried an assault rifle or weaker, and tended to laugh at even Sniper Rifles. That same build in SR4 caused him to rethink that attitude very, very quickly. Armor in SR4 is no longer a guarantee to eliminating damage.

[Bigity]

Read my statement tongue-in-cheek fellas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I did like the damage staging though, it was pretty unique and allowed some weapons to be flat out more deadly, as they should be.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Read my statement tongue-in-cheek fellas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I did like the damage staging though, it was pretty unique and allowed some weapons to be flat out more deadly, as they should be.

Understood... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

However, Damage staging in 1st Edition was overly complex in my opinion.

[capt.pantsless]

What I always found interested was how LITTLE has changed since 1st ed.

Trolls are still trolls, human attributes still go from 1-6, you still shoot the mage first, etc. A lot of details have changed, but the overall feel of the game when you're sitting around the gaming table is largely the same exact thing. The original authors came-up with a very, very good game.

[KCKitsune]

The original authors came-up with a very, very good game.

Except for NAN and all the stereotypes that were mashed together.

I do like the rules for cyberware and the fluff behind the augmentation... especially in 4th edition.

[nezumi]

What I always found interested was how LITTLE has changed since 1st ed.

Despite how much we complain (and yes, I enjoy complaining too!) everyone who has worked on Shadowrun have been fans of the game. Even SR4, which is the most divergent iteration, you can see the changes were made to specifically fix perceived problems while keeping the game running, not to invent a new game. I don't know how common that is in the gaming world, but I feel awfully lucky for it. Plus, now we have an edition for just about any taste in gaming (all we're missing is a rules lite/diceless version).

[hermit]

everyone who has worked on Shadowrun have been fans of the game.

Not the bulk of the current writers. I have great trouble believing that, considering the ... quality of recent releases. Well, exempting Bull and the Missions guy.m SRM04-00 is a blast, the others look good too. But War? Attitude? Please.

Even SR4, which is the most divergent iteration, you can see the changes were made to specifically fix perceived problems while keeping the game running, not to invent a new game. I don't know how common that is in the gaming world, but I feel awfully lucky for it. Plus, now we have an edition for just about any taste in gaming (all we're missing is a rules lite/diceless version).

Well, attempted to fix. SR4 has it's highs, but the Matrix rules are just sad. The old system was ... fast, simple, got the job done. The SR4 system tries to be the Internet, the GitS AR overlay stuff, and the old SR Matrix. It can only fail. Anyone who disagrees ought to read Virtual realities. THAT'S what a sourcebook ought to read like. That's something you read not to look up an obscure rule but because it is fun to read.

That's what I miss most about SR4. The books aren't enjoyable to read anymore. Sure, you can read them and then write scathing, fuming, rage filled reviews, like Frank Trollman does. But that's not very enjoyable for me. The level of writing of 1st and 2nd Edition is forever lost, though, I'm afraid.

[DireRadiant]

As always in any discussions about the multiple versions of SR, keep the discussion civil and positive.

If you come into this thread with only negative inflammatory posts there will be additional Warnings issued.

[suoq]

To me, the big difference was in the worlds in which SR1 and SR4 were written.

Take http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJGo2rvfSuA and add basic fantasy elements: magic, orcs, trolls. You have the SR1 Universe as it was, complete with a Jim Steinman soundtrack. Science fiction and fantasy as seen by a world discovering the TRS-80 and Apple IIe.

Now Androids and iPhones are commonplace. We have some pretty good replacement arms ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6R5bm6qx2E ). One of the problems with SR4 is that we've caught up with and passed half the technology in the books. We keep trying to drag the Shadowrun world down a past we lived with technology we have, trying to reconcile Androids and iPhones with a world imagined from an era when cell phones weighed 2 pounds and cost $3,995.

To me, SR1 feels like steampunk in a way. Ages ago, Jules Verne wrote Science Fiction that we've gone so far past that it's become a fantasy never-was world. Steampunk is a romantic way to remember a future that never was, to jump into that world that was once the future and now has become an imaginary past. I like SR1, because it's future that never was.

"You're about to enter a world unlike a world you've ever seen before where rock n'roll is king, the only law is a loaded gun. Where the beautiful, the brutal and the brave all meet." .., Running the shadows, the only thing better than KVSR Rocks!.

[nezumi]

Amen to that. We need some more quality, inspired fiction writers.