 Preventing of Powergaming, ...need assistance at character creation (again)^^ |
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 May 17 2011, 11:50 AM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749  |
Our GM now refuses to accept metavariants in combination with Surge. I created an fomori-mystic adept with 5 power points (hardmaxed magic) and i urgently need a higher agility. I am not going to implant ´ware and i lack spellcasting skills. I also spent most of my quality points (10 for mystic adept, 10 for "way of the adept", 5 for mentor spirit) so i don´t have the 20BP left that would be needed for the exceptional attribute (agility). I planned to ask the GM for a medium rating 2 surge, only to get metagenetic agility, nothing freakish or something else. IF he declines, do you see how to manage to raise the attribute anyway and save the build?
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May 17 2011, 12:20 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 873 Joined: 16-September 10 Member No.: 19,052 |
I would suggest using
Your GM probably won't let you use Geas-learning, if he's already concerned about overpowered stuff, but that of course always helps. |
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May 17 2011, 12:22 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,899 Joined: 29-October 09 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Member No.: 17,814 |
Disclaimer: I'm personally biased against SURGE, Infected and Metavariants. To me, it's like they stand for "the species is the character concept", as well as somewhat cheesy powergaming. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, just my biases in general. No offense meant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
How high an Agility do you want? You can get pretty high without resorting to The Strange. Agility 5 is nice, 6-7 is good, and 8-9 is really quite high. Of course, elves are even curvier. I like Muscle Toner. It's reasonably affordable and at 0.2 Essence per point, more efficient than spending Power Points on it. Restricted Gear and R4 Muscle Toner costs 8.2 BP, add about 10BP for "Magic" - then you've saved 21.8BP over trying to do the same with Magic or mundane Attribute-buying. Version A: cheapass Softmax Agility to 5 (40BP), Restricted Gear (5BP), R4 Muscle Toner (3.2BP), compensate a point of Magic (10BP): 58.2BP and 0.8 Essence for Agility 9 Version B: expensive but bigger Elf (30BP), Genetic Optimization (9BP) Hardmax Agility to 8 (75BP), Restricted Gear (5BP), R4 Muscle Toner (3.2BP), compensate a point of Magic (10BP): 132.2BP and 1.0 Essence for Agility 12, +2 Charisma and Low-Light Vision. Well, as you can see, there's some diminishing returns when you push past 9. |
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May 17 2011, 12:33 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 |
The problem is, that trolls get a -1 reduction in agility. So 7 would already be absolute augmented max. The goal of this build would be to become at least as "flexible" as a human or ork char. This means max. natural agility 6, augmented 9. The char. is intended to be some kind of tank, so i don´t want to switch the metatype. I could go back to standard-troll, but orks, elves etc. are no option. Because ware etc. is no option (genetic optim. also costs essence) there is not much left. I can either go for regular troll and max. surge (but in this case i lack the arcane arrester) or i stick with fomori and find another solution...
Maybe i can convince the GM to let me switch the metagenetic body for metagenetic agility? |
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May 17 2011, 12:46 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 873 Joined: 16-September 10 Member No.: 19,052 |
Ok, sorry, well I totally didn't see that problem..
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May 17 2011, 01:18 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 |
Wish-list: fomori adept with agility 6 as racial max. but without surge and ware. I only know about genetic optimization, surge and the quality that raise natural maximums...but all are not available. Any alternative solution is welcome.
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May 17 2011, 01:23 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,899 Joined: 29-October 09 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Member No.: 17,814 |
So basically you want all the benefits of a troll (variant) without the downsides?
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May 17 2011, 01:36 PM
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#8
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Looks like it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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May 17 2011, 01:41 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
In a topic called "Preventing of Powergaming", no less. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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May 17 2011, 01:47 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,373 Joined: 14-January 10 From: Stuttgart, Germany Member No.: 18,036 |
why not just get Attribute Boost [Agility]. with a softmax Agi of 4, you'll end up at 5 to 8 depending on luck.
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May 17 2011, 01:51 PM
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#11
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Makki @ May 17 2011, 06:47 AM)  why not just get Attribute Boost [Agility]. with a softmax Agi of 4, you'll end up at 5 to 8 depending on luck. Well, he will still max out at 7, regardless of Luck. Maximum Augmented is still Maximum Augmented after all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) |
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May 17 2011, 01:54 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 328 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,353 |
What do you need a 6(9) cap on agility for? If you aren't spellcasting nor using cyberware, what's your plan on raising your agility? Sure it's neat and all to the theoretical max as a human or ork, but what are you going to do with it? Have a friend sustain an increase agility on you? Otherwise you're only down 1 point of agility (softcap 4 versus 5 or hardcap 5 versus 6) which isn't that big.
If you're planning a possession build, then yeah you're losing 2 dice on agility. That isn't so bad. It's less than a hit on average. I would just live with it. Edit- Removed comment |
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May 17 2011, 01:55 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,373 Joined: 14-January 10 From: Stuttgart, Germany Member No.: 18,036 |
typo *g*. wanted to write 5 to 7, ofc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
and 7 is fine. there are no more ways to increase your max attribute than the already mentioned. |
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May 17 2011, 01:57 PM
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#14
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Makki @ May 17 2011, 06:55 AM) typo *g*. wanted to write 5 to 7, ofc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) and 7 is fine. there are no more ways to increase your max attribute than the already mentioned. Yeah... I am often fine with Agility in the 5-7 range. That is downright good in fact. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There is a drug or two that can increase Agility as well, if I remember correctly. Temporary, but useful. |
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May 17 2011, 02:37 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 |
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ May 17 2011, 01:23 PM) So basically you want all the benefits of a troll (variant) without the downsides? Aaah, they got me. Ok, lets specify a little more detailed: "less powergaming". As an mysad with focus in adept powers, agility is important. I can live with reductions in charisma, logic and intuition, but agility? No way. ^^ |
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May 17 2011, 03:03 PM
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#16
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ May 17 2011, 07:37 AM) Aaah, they got me. Ok, lets specify a little more detailed: "less powergaming". As an mysad with focus in adept powers, agility is important. I can live with reductions in charisma, logic and intuition, but agility? No way. ^^ So.... Don't play a Troll or Troll variant. Play an Elf (or Elf variant) instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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May 17 2011, 03:21 PM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: 27-July 10 Member No.: 18,860 |
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
But elf variant do not give you a +4 to Body, you know. QUOTE Our GM now refuses to accept metavariants in combination with Surge. Well, I guess he knows why... |
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May 17 2011, 04:28 PM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 |
Powergaming for life^^
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May 17 2011, 04:39 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,373 Joined: 14-January 10 From: Stuttgart, Germany Member No.: 18,036 |
be a gnome. increased body, normal agi, arcane arrester
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May 17 2011, 04:43 PM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 |
Yeah, but all powergaming fades at the thought of playing an DWARF....baaaah.^^
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May 17 2011, 04:47 PM
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#21
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Irion @ May 17 2011, 08:21 AM) @Tymeaus Jalynsfein But elf variant do not give you a +4 to Body, you know. Sure, but you don't suffer with Agility... Which is apparently the concern... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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May 17 2011, 04:49 PM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 |
BUT you suffer with Reaction. Not a good trade. AND with running speed...drastically. You suffer with strenght...and body...and mean nasty DWARF JOKES!!!!! The WORST^^
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May 17 2011, 04:57 PM
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#23
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ May 17 2011, 09:49 AM) BUT you suffer with Reaction. Not a good trade. AND with running speed...drastically. You suffer with strenght...and body...and mean nasty DWARF JOKES!!!!! The WORST^^ Well, Dwarfs are short... what do you expect? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) |
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May 17 2011, 05:28 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,373 Joined: 14-January 10 From: Stuttgart, Germany Member No.: 18,036 |
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 17 2011, 11:57 AM) Well, Dwarfs are short... what do you expect? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) in my home group there was never one dwarf joke. because i have been the shortest of the group in RL for two decades now, I can play always dwarf as they stopped making short people jokes towards my direction 1.5 decades ago (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think that's actually bad roleplaying by them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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May 17 2011, 05:45 PM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 |
Definitely, i think everybody in our group tried at least one time to play a dwarf-character...and no single one lasted more than 2 runs. We have a LOT of dwarf-jokes...^^
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