Why the DocWagon hate?, Rereading the FAQ Options

[Hida Tsuzua]

I was going though the Missions FAQ and came across the question on DocWagon contracts. The answer seems to be extremely passively aggressively suggesting that you shouldn't take the DocWagon contract with all the mentions of horrible shaftings by NPCs that might result. While all technically true, why bother being so against it? Is there some sort of DocWagon abuse in Missions I don't know about?

It's like if wired reflexes had a long FAQ entry about you could totally flip out and shoot your best friend due to your reflexes. It just seems random and arbitrary when space could have gone towards stuff like book rule hierarchy or how the hell the matrix works or how mob mind works or a billion other little useful questions.

After all, it's 5000Y a year and then 10,000Y if they do show up (and they may not show up fast enough to save you anyways if you're dying depending on your body score). That's not exactly cheap (most or more than an adventure payout) nor is saving a PC's life exactly the road to powergaming. So why the DocWagon hate?

[LurkerOutThere]

Some people have a natural aversion to a "good" organization in the SR world. Docwagon is about as close as you can come to that. I think that's the sum total of it. Personally I really like when people take Docwagon contracts as it gives ma plausable way to get them out of bad situations not caused by their own woefull stupidity without forcing them to burn an edge for hand of god. I think the FAQ should focus more on how Docwagon and Crashcart usually won't serve contracts on AA and AAA grounds without a prior agreement such as extradition being in place. On the whole I don't think there's any reason not to take Docwagon or any particular hostility towards them from a writing/admins standpoint.

Honestly it's likely an item left over fromt he first FAQ writeup that people have forgotten the original reason for.

[Bull]

It's a holdover from earlier FAQ's. I'm not entirely certain why it was worded in such a way initially, but it does make valid points that a lot of players don't consider when they take DocWagon. I left it as is, mainly so that if an adventure (or even an individual GM) uses it against another NPC or the players, they're prepared.

That said, almost all of my characters have DocWagon. Always have. I love DocWagon.

[Stahlseele]

It's only bad, if you want your character to die and Doc Wagon does not let you die . .

[Bull]

It's not DocWagon that's the problem. It's the fact that DocWagon is just as susceptible to bribes, theft, etc as any other corp. WHich means that enemies can get to you through DocWagon, if they were really dedicated. It's as secure as anything in Shadowrun, but as professional (Or sort-of professional) shadowrunners, you should all know just how secure that really is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That said, I have no plans to hose anyone via DocWagon at this time, nor do any of our writers, so far as I know (Nor would I likely let that pass).

Bull

[DWC]

It's not DocWagon that's the problem. It's the fact that DocWagon is just as susceptible to bribes, theft, etc as any other corp. WHich means that enemies can get to you through DocWagon, if they were really dedicated. It's as secure as anything in Shadowrun, but as professional (Or sort-of professional) shadowrunners, you should all know just how secure that really is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That said, I have no plans to hose anyone via DocWagon at this time, nor do any of our writers, so far as I know (Nor would I likely let that pass).

Bull

To me, the issue with DocWagon has always been simple. Anywhere that they'll come get me out of, I can get out of on my own. The places a runner really needs a QRF in a gunship are places DocWagon can't or won't go.

[Bull]

Generally the point of DocWagon is to come get you out not because you can't because of the opposition. But because you can't because you're lying there bleeding out. Runners tend to want to use them as a "get out of Coprpsec Space free" card, but that's not entirely the point of them.

[suoq]

I don't think of Docwagon as an issue. I think of it as an opportunity. As a player I've used Docwagon as a character background and as a disguise (have overwatch shoot up the place and then the face/infiltration crew walk in as medics, use docwagon vehicles to smuggle items past security, etc.). As a GM, I've used Docwagon as reinforcements (they have a deal with the target location and do the players really want to get in a firefight with Docwagon. It's enough to get someone to think twice about taking Combat Monster again.).

Docwagon is a great model for subcontracting and the security holes caused by subcontracting. Without them and Knight Errant, enclaves would look a lot more like Cheyenne Mountain, but their existence adds both holes in security and allows for reserves greater than would make sense within the enclave itself.

[TBRMInsanity]

DocWagon becomes problematic when you take higher grade contracts with the corp. The basic DocWagon contract gives you a alert bracelet that you need to manually trigger in order for DocWagon to pick you up. This is a life saver at times. The higher grade contracts have pre-set limits (traditionally associated to different wound levels (Deadly, Serious, or Moderate for the Platinum Contract). This can be a pain in the but when your on a stealth mission and you suffer a Moderate wound (for say being an idiot and falling down a shaft somewhere (it happened once to a character of mine)), DocWagon rushes in to "save" their client and your mission is a scrub (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) .

My personal opinion is that a Basic DocWagon contract is a no brainier for every professional Shadowrunner. Any contract level above that should be character specific (for example the Hacker with the Fairlight would probably want the Platinum contract if he/she can afford it and he/she never is in direct combat). Read your contract details before choosing the contract for your character.

[baronspam]

Generally the point of DocWagon is to come get you out not because you can't because of the opposition. But because you can't because you're lying there bleeding out. Runners tend to want to use them as a "get out of Coprpsec Space free" card, but that's not entirely the point of them.

Exactly. Docwagon is an emergecy medical service, not a summon airborne division spell. They defninatly have their uses, but they arn't the marines and they are not goig to violate extraterritoriality without permission.

[Crazy Ivan]

Amen Baronspam. DocWagon is a tremendously unique group, but it is not a "Get Out of Trouble Free" card.

I personally find it funny when players actually use DocWagon as part of a plan. They have used the aforementioned idea of using DocWagon credentials to access a building (albeit, they were claiming system failure in a helicopter and needed to land, then the face pulled the "I Gotta Pee" plan to access lower levels).

[Street Prophet]

Yeah, I've had DocWagon show up to save my runner, only to finish me off. They are just like any other corp, love em or hate em.

[Nath]

Honestly it's likely an item left over fromt he first FAQ writeup that people have forgotten the original reason for.

Maybe the reason also lied in the fact the first season of Missions was about a corporate conflict involving DocWagon ?

[SaddMann]

What about the flip side of this? How often has a run been hosed because DW showed up to recover one of the runners "victims"? All of the sudden lights, noise and action at the sight of a relatively covert op. (Of course, I have seen this used as a distraction before, as one of the runners noticed a security contractor with access wearing the DW wrist alerter!)